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Old 11-12-2017, 09:19 AM
 
Location: New York Area
20,653 posts, read 8,077,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Did they have a History class in your school?

The Axis consisted of Germany, Italy, and Japan. France was Allied with England, US, and Russia. Germany invaded France and controlled it for most of the war. That's why they had that D-Day thing. It was to invade France and drive the Germans out. There's more in History books.
Technically you're right, but during the bulk of the war they were occupied by and supported the Nazis or the Vichy regime.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,257 posts, read 20,407,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Technically you're right, but during the bulk of the war they were occupied by and supported the Nazis or the Vichy regime.
The Occupied Zone didn't support the nazis and the Vichy government had some kind of power for around 2 years.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:38 AM
 
Location: San Angelo, TX
1,959 posts, read 3,228,302 times
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Said one French statesman why they did not fight the German invasion, "The Germans always leave."
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:58 AM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,268 posts, read 1,043,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Did they have a History class in your school?

The Axis consisted of Germany, Italy, and Japan. France was Allied with England, US, and Russia. Germany invaded France and controlled it for most of the war. That's why they had that D-Day thing. It was to invade France and drive the Germans out. There's more in History books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Technically you're right, but during the bulk of the war they were occupied by and supported the Nazis or the Vichy regime.
Just because occupiers erect a puppet state and are able to scrounge up a small minority of supporters hardly means a nation is 'on their side'.

It's as ridiculous as saying that Norway was 'on the side' of the Third Reich [spoiler - it wasn't!]. That 'technically' Vidkun Quisling was happily goosestepping in Oslo is utterly irrelevant.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:02 AM
 
36,588 posts, read 18,827,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armenius View Post
What I want to know is, it's said that the French were unprepared for mechanized warfare and the new technology used to fight. Aren't generals paid to keep up to date on new tech, how it can be used, what potential enemies are up to, etc.? Seems as if whoever were the generals in the French military at the time were all kinds of stupid.
That's a bit of a harsh accusation. In hindsight, yes, it becomes clear that the Germans learned the right lessons from WWI and most of the world learned the wrong ones. But if you had had an object lesson two decades previously on the immense value of well-prepared defense installations, wouldn't you be tempted to apply it?
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:03 AM
 
36,588 posts, read 18,827,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danbo1957 View Post
Said one French statesman why they did not fight the German invasion, "The Germans always leave."
90,000 KIA. Six weeks. Sure looks like a fight to me.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:25 AM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Just because occupiers erect a puppet state and are able to scrounge up a small minority of supporters hardly means a nation is 'on their side'.

It's as ridiculous as saying that Norway was 'on the side' of the Third Reich [spoiler - it wasn't!]. That 'technically' Vidkun Quisling was happily goosestepping in Oslo is utterly irrelevant.
There was a lot of support for the Nazis in both countries. Denmark is an example of a country that did not support the Nazis. By and large their Jewish population was saved. Norway and France were sending their Jews eagerly, though there were quite honorable exceptions.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:11 AM
 
5,114 posts, read 4,942,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You are in many ways right, it will be wrong to say otherwise, but this is only part of the truth.
Аlthough your words are talking about salvation. Without this, France would surely have been captured. In order to save the ally, the Russian Empire accelerated mobilization and got involved in military adventures. So the Russian soldiers found themselves in the trenches of the Western Front.
In June 1916, the soldiers of the expedition received their first baptism of fire. They had to participate in several major battles, including in the so-called Niall slaughter. and the Verdun meat grinder, where by the way the Russians saved the situation. The Russian expeditionary corps showed real heroism and won victories where the Allies retreated.
I was talking about (the Russian Expeditionary Corps), the Shof spoke specifically about their participation.
I must be honest, I didn't know about the Russian Expeditionary Corps, requested by the French government and sent by Russia to fight in France. However, they were a brigade size force of no more than 5,000. I find it highly suspect to claim that in 1916 France was saved from capture by five thousand Russian troops.

Quote:
He raised his morale with his own example. About saving France is not my word, and I never claimed it to be so. But France won the war with great help to Russia. but it's funny how France thanked Russia after the revolution. France was one of the agents of military intervention in Russia and tried to tear off a piece to itself. However, like England and the United States. Today in the west they do not even know what kind of genocide these interventionists have arranged in Russia.
It's even funnier to claim that Russia somehow helped France win the war, when Russia itself was pretty much out of the war by 1917.

I do know about the Archangel Campaign in Russia, conducted by the western powers after the abdication of the Tsar and the beginning of the Russian Civil War. The stated goal was to secure military materials that had been provided by the West to the Tsar's government, to keep them from falling into the hands of the Bolshevik side of the civil war, and (unofficially) to provide some assistance to the anti-communist White Army.

I find it remarkable that you believe that France was intent upon tearing off a piece of Russia while it was fully engaged with the German Empire, or that a western force of perhaps 20 thousand was plotting to carry out "genocide" against Russia.

Quote:
After this, it is naturally unclear why in 1939 the union did not take place between France and Russia. Allies never fulfilled their obligations to Russia, unlike Russia. France as naturally no one helped. Although she could join herself, if the French would want it.
It's pretty clear to most everyone why in 1939 Stalin and the Soviet Union broke their pact with France and signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler and Nazi Germany. Stalin abandoned his western ally because he found that he had been frozen out of negotiations in Western Europe when Czechoslovakia was partitioned and the non-aggression pact with the Nazis allowed Stalin to seize the Baltic states and the eastern third of Poland, and to additionally pursue a war against Finland without the encumbrance of the opinions of any western allies.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
There was a lot of support for the Nazis in both countries. Denmark is an example of a country that did not support the Nazis. By and large their Jewish population was saved. Norway and France were sending their Jews eagerly, though there were quite honorable exceptions.
Few people in France or Norway supported the nazis. Though there was rampant antisemitism in Europe and North America at the time, that doesn't mean that it was support for nazi Germany.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:38 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,836,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Just because occupiers erect a puppet state and are able to scrounge up a small minority of supporters hardly means a nation is 'on their side'.

It's as ridiculous as saying that Norway was 'on the side' of the Third Reich [spoiler - it wasn't!]. That 'technically' Vidkun Quisling was happily goosestepping in Oslo is utterly irrelevant.
In fact, it was the opposite. this is not the whole truth-indeed some Frenchmen went underground, the French resistance, some took part in the battles on the Eastern Front on the side of the USSR in the French fighter regiment (Normandy-Niemen).

But you forget the most important thing.
But even more Frenchmen calmly accepted Hitler's power and even supported his plans, including with weapons in hand - the French crossed arms in North Africa with Anglo-American forces, participated in the fighting on the Eastern Front in the ranks of the Armed Forces of the Third Reich. In London and Washington, they even intended to rank France as belonging to the territories that were in occupation with Germany after the Second World War. Only the firm position of Stalin saved France from the occupation regime and, at his insistence, was included in the Anti-Hitler Camp.
until May 1945, many Frenchmen volunteered under the banner of dozens of units and formations of the armed forces and auxiliary organizations of the Third Reich. Such French volunteers were tens of thousands, and as a result, the citizens of France were the largest in number Western European people, who fought on the side of Hitlerite Germany in World War II.


Now let's talk about Norway. Part of the population, like the pro-German government, supported the Reich, and even independently created some volunteer units. In the occupation, Norway lived a peaceful life.

The Norwegians-resisted- the Wehrmacht a little more than 3 weeks (from April 9 to May 2, 1940). The level of "resistance of the Norwegian Armed Forces is well told by their losses: 1,335 people killed and missing, up to 60 thousand prisoners, that is, the overwhelming majority preferred to lay down their arms. After that, the country lived as a whole a peaceful life, until the end of 1944, when military operations swept the northern part of Norway. At that time, part of the population actively supported Germany and the pro-German government. Norwegian volunteers fought against the Soviet Union, helped strengthen the power of the German Empire. The country carried out an operation to arrest and deport the Jewish population, half of these people were destroyed. There were 114 newspapers in the country that participated in the information war against the Anti-Hitler Coalition and before the first days of May 1945 glorified the great Fuhrer Adolf Hitler and reported on the -atrocities- of the Anglo-Bolshevik coalition.
The de facto Norwegians took almost no part in the liberation of their homeland. Although some wrote on the walls of phrases like: -Norway - for Norwegians. And Quisling let him go to hell. -True, we can note the -war- of the Norwegians against their fellow citizens. After Germany surrendered, 14,000 women who were born from German soldiers were arrested, 5,000 without a court decision were placed in camps. All this was accompanied by beatings, rape, violent shaving of heads. Up to 8 thousand women were deported from the country. Children who were born from the Germans, for many decades, have become -lepers.-
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