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Old 11-12-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,836,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
I must be honest, I didn't know about the Russian Expeditionary Corps, requested by the French government and sent by Russia to fight in France. However, they were a brigade size force of no more than 5,000. I find it highly suspect to claim that in 1916 France was saved from capture by five thousand Russian troops.



It's even funnier to claim that Russia somehow helped France win the war, when Russia itself was pretty much out of the war by 1917.

I do know about the Archangel Campaign in Russia, conducted by the western powers after the abdication of the Tsar and the beginning of the Russian Civil War. The stated goal was to secure military materials that had been provided by the West to the Tsar's government, to keep them from falling into the hands of the Bolshevik side of the civil war, and (unofficially) to provide some assistance to the anti-communist White Army.

I find it remarkable that you believe that France was intent upon tearing off a piece of Russia while it was fully engaged with the German Empire, or that a western force of perhaps 20 thousand was plotting to carry out "genocide" against Russia.



It's pretty clear to most everyone why in 1939 Stalin and the Soviet Union broke their pact with France and signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler and Nazi Germany. Stalin abandoned his western ally because he found that he had been frozen out of negotiations in Western Europe when Czechoslovakia was partitioned and the non-aggression pact with the Nazis allowed Stalin to seize the Baltic states and the eastern third of Poland, and to additionally pursue a war against Finland without the encumbrance of the opinions of any western allies.
In reality, everything was not so. Initially, it was planned to send troops to France with a total strength of 400,000 personnel.

Special expeditionary forces of the Imperial Army included four separate special infantry brigades (two-regiment each) with a total strength of 750 officers and 45,000 non-commissioned officers and soldiers who arrived during 1916 in France. The 1st and 3rd Special Infantry Brigades were sent to the front in Champagne, and the 2nd and 4th were sent to the Thessaloniki Front, to Macedonia. In the spring of 1917 an artillery brigade and engineer-sapper battalion arrived in France. Most importantly, they did raise the spirit of the French army to their examples. and naturally they need to be considered in a complex, with the support of France on the eastern front.

Russian troops were the second after the French in number in the First World War. Russia fought against Germany for the time due to allied relations. so it's silly to say otherwise. Without the participation of Russia, France would have lost, no doubt. as for the revolution. Germany, the United States and Japan created a revolution in Russia, for the reason that Russia won the first world war. But the main reason was that Russian Oil was sold through Rothschild. Rockefeller could not change this, so he sponsored the revolution. After that, Russia became the country that lost the first (ww1)world, although by results, it won it. As for the intervention.


During the foreign intervention of 1918-1921, Russia was divided into zones of influence. If the plans of the interventionists had been realized, our country would not have existed in the current borders.

Beginning of intervention
Immediately after the -Decree on Peace-and the truce of Soviet Russia with Germany on the Eastern Front, on December 3, 1917, the United States, France, Britain and allied countries decided to divide the former Russian Empire into zones of interest.

It was about establishing links with local national governments and declaring the independence of Ukraine, Belarus, the Caucasus, Poland, Finland and other Baltic countries, as well as the Far East. A month later, at a special convention, England and France divided Russia into spheres of invasion.

The French zone was to consist of Bessarabia, Ukraine and the Crimea, and the English zone - from the territories of the Cossacks, the Caucasus, Armenia, Georgia and Kurdistan. The US government, while remaining in the shadows, accepted Secretary of State Lansing's report on providing secret support to British and French initiatives.

As the historian Kirmel writes, in the annex to the map of "New Russia" compiled by the US State Department, it was said:

"All of Russia should be divided into large natural areas, each with its own special economic life. At the same time, no region should be sufficiently independent to form a strong state. "

The threat of Russia's integrity was not only from the West, but also from the East. On February 26, 1918, the Allied Commander-in-Chief Marshal Foch declared that "America and Japan should meet Germany in Siberia - they have the opportunity to do this." This was the beginning of agitation for the military intervention of Japan in the Far East. As early as March 5, the Daily Mail newspaper insisted on the need to invite Japan to Siberia and create "Asian Russia". I will add that the military intervention was carried out. Moreover, there was genocide. For example, American troops killed and cut out entire villages in Siberia. I know this not by hearsay. On the line of the mother are my relatives from Siberia.


In the USA these people are worth a monument as heroes. Heroes who dealt with the genocide of civilians in Siberia.
Residents said that they could not sleep until they killed someone.

As for the 1939 treaty, I have already answered this question. The Allies initially were against any treaties with Russia, and it was obvious that the allies did not comply (we were convinced of this in 1941and until the end of the war), if they will. Having concluded the pact with Germany, Russia returned its ancestral lands and created a buffer zone for the forthcoming war.


But let's return to the theme of France in the second world.

Last edited by GreyKarast; 11-12-2017 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:17 PM
 
1,594 posts, read 2,975,640 times
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Text / The Complete Military History of France
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:03 PM
 
36,588 posts, read 18,827,105 times
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Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
There was a lot of support for the Nazis in both countries. Denmark is an example of a country that did not support the Nazis. By and large their Jewish population was saved. Norway and France were sending their Jews eagerly, though there were quite honorable exceptions.
Well, let's not over-laud my countrymen, either. Once it became clear that Danish Nazis weren't going to be given a say politically, quite a few joined up to fight the Soviets. Of course, this served to remove them from the population, permanently in quite a few cases, so...

The rescue of the Jews was a very fine hour, though. (Always liked the fact that the German who gave the word was made West Germany's first ambassador to Denmark.)
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:18 PM
 
Location: New York Area
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Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
The rescue of the Jews was a very fine hour, though. (Always liked the fact that the German who gave the word was made West Germany's first ambassador to Denmark.)
About the only bright spot in a very dismal history of Europe helping Germany solve the Jewish problem finally. The Diary of Anne Frank and Schindler's List shows that except Denmark and Italy, by and large Europeans cooperated in the destruction of the Jews. That is why I'm basically no fan of most European countries.
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,257 posts, read 20,407,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
About the only bright spot in a very dismal history of Europe helping Germany solve the Jewish problem finally. The Diary of Anne Frank and Schindler's List shows that except Denmark and Italy, by and large Europeans cooperated in the destruction of the Jews. That is why I'm basically no fan of most European countries.
Yeah, and Roosevelt was specifically advised from not speaking out about the Jews, as the American public should not at any point be able to ask the question that is this war really about the Jews and not the liberation of Europe? Henry Ford and others would've gladly seen Jews work themselves to death in KZ Detroit or anywhere. The US and UK could've saved hundreds of thousands of Jews by letting them immigrate before the war, but they did nothing. They turned their backs on them, because they hated the Jews. There were millions of Americans who would've wanted to see 12 million dead instead of 6 million.

The US and Britain was as antisemitic as any country in Europe, so get off your high horse and stop your BS. Even if nazi Germany never existed, the holocaust would've happened in a way or another. It was inevitable. Maybe in the USSR or the US, or maybe somewhere else. And that is because of hundreds of years of antisemitism and irrational hatred among a big chunk of the Western World. That is embarrassing, inconvinient, and very triggering, but it's the goddamn truth.
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:49 PM
 
Location: New York Area
20,648 posts, read 8,077,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Yeah, and Roosevelt was specifically advised from not speaking out about the Jews, as the American public should not at any point be able to ask the question that is this war really about the Jews and not the liberation of Europe? Henry Ford and others would've gladly seen Jews work themselves to death in KZ Detroit or anywhere. The US and UK could've saved hundreds of thousands of Jews by letting them immigrate before the war, but they did nothing. They turned their backs on them, because they hated the Jews. There were millions of Americans who would've wanted to see 12 million dead instead of 6 million.

The US and Britain was as antisemitic as any country in Europe, so get off your high horse and stop your BS. Even if nazi Germany never existed, the holocaust would've happened in a way or another. It was inevitable. Maybe in the USSR or the US, or maybe somewhere else. And that is because of hundreds of years of antisemitism and irrational hatred among a big chunk of the Western World. That is embarrassing and inconvinient, but it's the goddamn truth.
I happen to agree. But then again I am Jewish.

Add PM King of Canada and Churchill of Britain to your list.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:12 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,836,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Yeah, and Roosevelt was specifically advised from not speaking out about the Jews, as the American public should not at any point be able to ask the question that is this war really about the Jews and not the liberation of Europe? Henry Ford and others would've gladly seen Jews work themselves to death in KZ Detroit or anywhere. The US and UK could've saved hundreds of thousands of Jews by letting them immigrate before the war, but they did nothing. They turned their backs on them, because they hated the Jews. There were millions of Americans who would've wanted to see 12 million dead instead of 6 million.
You know 6 million dead Jews during the Second World War, this is a myth invented by the Jews themselves. The reality is that according to the population census of 1938 in all of Europe there were about 3.5 million Jews. how many left before the war how many fled during the war and so on. in reality it is not more than 2 million. At the same time, the Jews themselves (the majority) did nothing to protect themselves, but after the war, most of all scream about the death of poor Jews who cared only about their lives. The Chinese were destroyed 40 real millions as well as Russians but at every step they do not shout about it.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:07 AM
 
15,448 posts, read 27,614,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
...

Don't make the mistake of underestimating the will of the French to oppose the Nazi invaders, though. Because their resistance movement was very effective in aiding the allied invasions in Normandy and the south of France. Also, French military units that evacuated at Dunkirk in 1940 returned in 1944 and fought well in expelling the Krauts from their country.
I believe I read that some 125,000 French were killed in the six-week invasion. That certainly doesn't sound like they rolled over completely. I imagine there was certainly psychological trauma from the enormous losses of WW1.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:42 AM
 
11,426 posts, read 5,644,534 times
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Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think the French people were armed the way the American People were armed. Once the French army was defeated, there was no way for the citizenry to fight even if they had the will to do so. I suppose they could throw rocks and baguettes at the tanks, but that seems pretty stupid.
In 1939 the US was woefully armed, and the army was only the 17th largest in the world, smaller than Portugal’s.

“there were 187,893 active-duty Army soldiers as of June 30, 1939; the army ballooned to nearly 8.3 million active-duty soldiers, its record high, by the end of May 1945.”
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:58 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,111 posts, read 4,836,547 times
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Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I found that your posts take on a much more entertaining aspect when I read it in a "Borat" accent.





How dare those Jews care about their lives!
I'm glad that my posts amuse you. No, it's not in the life of the Jews. It's their nagging and attracting undeserved attention every time and everywhere. They are still loudest about this. they also get the money. Yes, there were many deaths in any case, as well as many other nationalities. But, if they took at least attempts to protect themselves and the country in which they live, perhaps the victim would be less. But if they did not even try. Most just ran away.
And today everyone should say about the poor Jews, how badly you had to. it is a feeling that no one was injured in addition to the Jew, no one was tortured, hanged, tortured, conducted medical experiments and so on. But other nations, at least tried. I say of course about most Jews. In their ranks there was, of course, an exception, which bravely fought against fascism.


P.S.The film is stupid. Kazakhs do not look that way. Nothing to do with reality. It does not look like a comedy. Even the inscriptions are not correct and they are in the wrong Russian. In American films, this is typical. And you watch it?

Last edited by GreyKarast; 11-13-2017 at 07:12 AM..
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