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Old 02-05-2018, 05:14 PM
 
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Did he really think no one would care after the war?
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Old 02-05-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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I think he was commenting on how the speakers of that day, himself included, were not as important or significant as those who had fought on that ground.
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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The above is correct. President Lincoln also happened to be a genuinely humble man. He might have had high hopes for the reception of the speech, but he would not have had any expectations. In the immediate aftermath he remarked to his seatmate "That speech won't scour. It is a flat failure."
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Old 02-05-2018, 06:17 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfragrance View Post
Did he really think no one would care after the war?
In 1863, the outcome of the war was still very much in doubt. It wouldn't have been particularly memorable had the Union not endured, now would it? Further, is is highly unlikely that Abraham Lincoln ever conceived of himself as being ultimately regarded as one of the greatest - often, the greatest - President. Finally, note that he spoke of 'the world'. In the 1860s, the United States was still many decades away from becoming the politically/militarily/economically/culturally dominant nation that it emerged as after the second world war. The world wasn't paying all that much attention to the United States at the time, and it is likely that few then imagined the superpower it would become.

A lot of men never realize in their lifetimes the stature they will eventually attain. Lincoln was such a man.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
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Lincoln undoubtedly made hundreds of appearances and gave hundreds of speeches during his career, and mass communication was only in its early stages of development.

A more important question might be, "Why, (and how) did this particular speech draw the attention that eventually led to its prominence?"
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:03 AM
 
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That's a good question really, why did a 2 minute speech become so popular? First of all of course it was the eloquent prose, that fact that it was so succinct but managed to convey such impact in so little words. The politician giving the speech before him took two hours, when Lincoln was done it kind of shocked the crowd that it was so short and no one really clapped. Lincoln thought it was a failure.

As I understand, it didn't really become popular until the turn of the century when the nation started to really come back together - the Reconstruction period had ended, old union and confederate soldiers had grown old and mellowed, America had entered a new war (Spanish-American) and had a new common cause. In particular, there were waves of reunions between former enemies and both sides praised the document as a commemorative to the soldier and his sacrifice to the nation.
Later, in the civil rights era, it started a new wave of popularity as a call for freedom and equality.
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:57 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
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When Lincoln said "the world will little note, nor long remember what we say here" he probably meant exactly what he said.

He wasn't the keynote speaker.

What did the main speaker at that occasion say?

Did anybody note what was said when Arlington was dedicated as a National Cemetery?

Do you know what was said at the ribbon cutting for the first National Park?

I doubt that Lincoln saw any reason for his words to be noted, reported, or repeated, let alone be remembered long after he was gone. Of course, he didn't think he would be revered as a great President or have a monument built in his memory either.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
When Lincoln said "the world will little note, nor long remember what we say here" he probably meant exactly what he said.

He wasn't the keynote speaker.

What did the main speaker at that occasion say?

Did anybody note what was said when Arlington was dedicated as a National Cemetery?

Do you know what was said at the ribbon cutting for the first National Park?

I doubt that Lincoln saw any reason for his words to be noted, reported, or repeated, let alone be remembered long after he was gone. Of course, he didn't think he would be revered as a great President or have a monument built in his memory either.
From a modern perspective the above seems true. However the American Civil War was conducted during the age of great oratory. There were speakers such as Edward Everett, who opened for President Lincoln at Gettysburg, who made good money as in demand orators. Crowds would reliably turn out for speakers with reputations as rhetorical masters. The content of these speeches was subordinate to the style, with bombast, classical references and lyrical passages from sentence to sentence being highly valued.

Formality of speech is noted in most of the antebellum and war time correspondence of the educated classes. Wordy flourishes were viewed as a sign of sophistication.

And in an age before professional sports, movies, tv etc, attending a lecture or a political debate/rally was a popular pass time. (It didn't hurt that the latter was typically accompanied by free whiskey)

Consequently rhetoric was held in far higher esteem than it is today. Speakers were conscious of being judged and had competitive drives to excel.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:43 AM
 
Location: crafton pa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
From a modern perspective the above seems true. However the American Civil War was conducted during the age of great oratory. There were speakers such as Edward Everett, who opened for President Lincoln at Gettysburg, who made good money as in demand orators. Crowds would reliably turn out for speakers with reputations as rhetorical masters. The content of these speeches was subordinate to the style, with bombast, classical references and lyrical passages from sentence to sentence being highly valued.

Formality of speech is noted in most of the antebellum and war time correspondence of the educated classes. Wordy flourishes were viewed as a sign of sophistication.

And in an age before professional sports, movies, tv etc, attending a lecture or a political debate/rally was a popular pass time. (It didn't hurt that the latter was typically accompanied by free whiskey)

Consequently rhetoric was held in far higher esteem than it is today. Speakers were conscious of being judged and had competitive drives to excel.
This may in part be why Lincoln chose the phrase in question. If people were inclined to listen to the speeches and remember that, Lincoln's line was a reminder to all that the oratory was not the important thing. It was the efforts and sacrifices of the soldiers that deserved to be remembered, not the flowery words of the speakers dedicating the cemetery after the battle.
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:39 AM
 
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I suppose he could have put it this way:


"Nobody is going to give a damn about our after-the-fact blather when there are thousands of dead and wounded guys to think about and care for."
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