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Interesting documentary on Jews in the military during WWI, integration into the military, going into Germany. Great story of a Sergeant Edmonds who, in a prison camp, when Germans order the Jews to identify themselves, to be killed, Edmonds ordered his men to refuse, telling the Nazis - even at gunpoint - "We are all Jews."
Interesting documentary on Jews in the military during WWI, integration into the military, going into Germany. Great story of a Sergeant Edmonds who, in a prison camp, when Germans order the Jews to identify themselves, to be killed, Edmonds ordered his men to refuse, telling the Nazis - even at gunpoint - "We are all Jews."
I've read several books about US units captured by the Nazi's and how support for any Jews sent them all the worse places. There's a couple of books written by survivors of Berga, and they were truely brave men standing for all. I believe the one I'm thinking of is Soldiers and Slaves.
The bravery of those individuals and commanders who refused to identify the Jews among them is extraordinary, and says much about how bravery can be quiet and strong too.
Until I saw and then read the book, and then saw the documentary, I don't recall any teacher including this in the war's end. Somehow that is very dissapointing.
I'm mostly heard about what happened in the camps until my friend, who was studying the Holocaust in college wrote a time traveling fan fiction, making sure all historical events were absolutely correct. I did her readthru and found I needed to read more. I wonder if any of the men at Berga would have guessed they would find that choice before they hopped on the ship going to war.
Hmmm, I was under the understanding from several sources that western allied jewish soldiers were generally treated the same as western allied soldiers from any background. The Luftwaffe, who managed the POW camps, treated western allied prisoners relativley fairly...with some exceptions of course (the massacre at Malmedy comes to mind, but that was before American prisoners were put in POW camps).
Hmmm, I was under the understanding from several sources that western allied jewish soldiers were generally treated the same as western allied soldiers from any background. The Luftwaffe, who managed the POW camps, treated western allied prisoners relativley fairly...with some exceptions of course (the massacre at Malmedy comes to mind, but that was before American prisoners were put in POW camps).
Russian prisoners on the other hands...
The Germans saw Slavs and jews as subhuman. Treated them differently.
The Germans saw Slavs and jews as subhuman. Treated them differently.
I think everyone understands that.
At the same time, POWs were primarily viewed as POWs. And their treatment differed vastly depending on their citizenship. For example, a Jew serving in the RAF was likely going to fare far better in German clutches as a POW than a Jew from Minsk. A Ukrainian who was a second-generation American and was captured while serving in the U.S. Army was likely going to fare far better in German captivity than a Ukrainian serving in (and captured from) the Red Army. In fact, I am not aware of any distinct Germany treatment of western POWs with Slavic origins, though it would not surprise me if it existed at some level. But again, a USAAF Pole from Milwaukee was going to be much likelier to survive Germany captivity than a Polish Pole from Krakow.
This is not to say that Jews and others did not suffer in captivity for reasons of religion and/or national origin. Being a Christian POW of 'good Germanic stock' due to the 'scientific racism' practiced in the Third Reich gave one a certain leg up. But in the confused and often contradictory morass of German racial thinking, politics was often allowed to trump logic (not surprising, given how tenuous such thinking was).
The Germans saw Slavs and jews as subhuman. Treated them differently.
Yes we obviously understand that.
But again Germany treated Soviet POWs much worse than Western Allied POWs. Doesn't matter if the western POW was black or jewish. The death rate of Soviet POWs in German Captivity on the other hand was over 50%, mostly due to starvation, again irregardless of the race or religion of the Soviet prisoner. Some ended outright in the extermination camps as well.
In turn, German POW's captured by Russians didn't fare much better - many ended up in Siberean gulags and died there, many didn't get released until the 1950s.
At the same time, POWs were primarily viewed as POWs. And their treatment differed vastly depending on their citizenship. For example, a Jew serving in the RAF was likely going to fare far better in German clutches as a POW than a Jew from Minsk. A Ukrainian who was a second-generation American and was captured while serving in the U.S. Army was likely going to fare far better in German captivity than a Ukrainian serving in (and captured from) the Red Army. In fact, I am not aware of any distinct Germany treatment of western POWs with Slavic origins, though it would not surprise me if it existed at some level. But again, a USAAF Pole from Milwaukee was going to be much likelier to survive Germany captivity than a Polish Pole from Krakow.
This is not to say that Jews and others did not suffer in captivity for reasons of religion and/or national origin. Being a Christian POW of 'good Germanic stock' due to the 'scientific racism' practiced in the Third Reich gave one a certain leg up. But in the confused and often contradictory morass of German racial thinking, politics was often allowed to trump logic (not surprising, given how tenuous such thinking was).
Interesting point. Surely there were Slavic surnames turning up among the US and Brit POW's, that you'd think would have been a red flag to their German captors, if the sorting and categorizing by "race" (not that Slav is a race, mind you) would have been consistent. Yet they did go after Jews, no matter what passport they were under. Interesting. I guess Slavs were viewed as Christians, so, while deemed inferior, they weren't enemies of Christianity.
OK, I have a question, as I process Hulsker's points. If Slavs were considered an inferior group, was there a category for Balts? No, I guess not. The Baltic States allied with Germany, so the issue didn't come up. Ok, carry on.
Oh, wait. What about German surnames that turned up among the Russian POW's? Were those identified as Germans, or did their red passports speak for them?
Actually the Germans took a pragmatic approach to the Slavic question especially if they could be useful to the prosecution of the war. Despite the propaganda rhetoric thousands of Slavs were released from prisoner of war camps to fight alongside the Nazis in a large military unit called the Russian Liberation Army under the command of the Soviet turncoat general Vlasov.
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I guess Slavs were viewed as Christians, so, while deemed inferior, they weren't enemies of Christianity.
