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Old 05-29-2018, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
18,455 posts, read 18,599,159 times
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Ive just been reading about the good Napoleon Bonaparte did in his reign .. things I never knew..He wasnt all good but look at his reforms etc... Napoleon Bonaparte's Lasting Contributions - dummies
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:29 AM
 
14,988 posts, read 23,793,018 times
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Oh he is lauded as a hero and genius in many circles, particularly France, and his Napoleonic Code remains.
He probably was a genius, certainly a military genius, but the pain and destruction he caused over Europe and other parts of the world is what remains - the Napoleonic War spanned some 15 years (add another decade if you want to include the wars of the revolution) resulted in the direct or indirect deaths of some 5 million. And the comments at the end of your link "the father of modern Europe"...what he was actually the "father of the modern police state" as his reign as dictator was anything but free and he used Gestapo type tactics including a network of informants, spies, Soviet-level propaganda, and torture and executions to ensure he stayed in power.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
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And he wasn't even all that short. About the same as Benny, and just a tad under that 'Dolph fellow. Not counting the hat.
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
18,455 posts, read 18,599,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Oh he is lauded as a hero and genius in many circles, particularly France, and his Napoleonic Code remains.
He probably was a genius, certainly a military genius, but the pain and destruction he caused over Europe and other parts of the world is what remains - the Napoleonic War spanned some 15 years (add another decade if you want to include the wars of the revolution) resulted in the direct or indirect deaths of some 5 million. And the comments at the end of your link "the father of modern Europe"...what he was actually the "father of the modern police state" as his reign as dictator was anything but free and he used Gestapo type tactics including a network of informants, spies, Soviet-level propaganda, and torture and executions to ensure he stayed in power.
Very true but I never realized about the good he did too..
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,008,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Oh he is lauded as a hero and genius in many circles, particularly France, and his Napoleonic Code remains.
He probably was a genius, certainly a military genius, but the pain and destruction he caused over Europe and other parts of the world is what remains - the Napoleonic War spanned some 15 years (add another decade if you want to include the wars of the revolution) resulted in the direct or indirect deaths of some 5 million. And the comments at the end of your link "the father of modern Europe"...what he was actually the "father of the modern police state" as his reign as dictator was anything but free and he used Gestapo type tactics including a network of informants, spies, Soviet-level propaganda, and torture and executions to ensure he stayed in power.
Good summation. What Napoleon did was to retain many of the welcome aspects of the revolution, while eliminating the chaos...but he did it by eliminating democracy and replacing it with a a non-royal monarchy.

In the earlier years France was constantly at war because of legitimate outside threats to the revolution. Later they were constantly at war as a reflection of Napoleon's unending ambitions..and love of battle.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:59 PM
 
14,988 posts, read 23,793,018 times
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Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Very true but I never realized about the good he did too..
Yes well you have to remember the French Revolution, predating Napoleon, was focused on liberalism, freedom, and secularism. But what was the inspiration of the French Revolution? - the American Revolution which in turn had it's own inspiration in, ironically, Napoleon's enemy Great Britian and the Constitutional Monarchy established there. Napoleon was simply a product of his times and it was his mission to bring the principles of the revolution to the old European regimes.

But many revolutions go bad and the French Revolution for all it's good intents is one of the best examples (the communist revolution in Russia is the next best example) - first the reign of terror, then a return to some stability with Napoleon (no one was cutting off heads anymore), then him declaring himself a dictator and destroying Europe in his intent to liberate it (and then finally a return to the monarchy). Good intentions do not always have good results.

It's also an irony that the article mentions his liberal treatment and equality given to jews. Which is true but his motives are somewhat in question as he didn't want to treat jews with equality as much as assimilate them. Which is fine until you consider it one alternative way of a civilization to rid one of there jewish identity. Also ironic is that his "modern police state" with identity cards, informants, and massive internal police intelligence networks was a model for the Nazi Gestapo in rounding up jews for execution a little over a century later.
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:44 PM
 
31,682 posts, read 26,589,504 times
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Good summation. What Napoleon did was to retain many of the welcome aspects of the revolution, while eliminating the chaos...but he did it by eliminating democracy and replacing it with a a non-royal monarchy.

In the earlier years France was constantly at war because of legitimate outside threats to the revolution. Later they were constantly at war as a reflection of Napoleon's unending ambitions..and love of battle.


They do say in some circles, and have done so for ages that France's revolution is cursed because it came about by regicide (murder of Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette), and as a result the country has not known lasting peace.


When you look at the history of France since the Bourbons were removed though various republics, creation of an imperial throne, restoration of the Bourbons, etc... it does make one wonder.


All this played out with France either being at war, invaded, occupied, and several major internal revolutions all between 1799 and 1945. Today it is bombings and other terrorist acts by Muslims.


As for Napoleon replacing democracy with basically an near absolute imperial monarchy, well the man was a product of his time.


It was after all a time when much of Europe was still ruled by monarchs, as things had been for hundreds of years. Yes, the newly founded United States of America offered an example, but many didn't think much of republican government and that nation would last.


Napoleon felt just as many monarchs; a country (in this case France) needed a firm hand on the wheel. People could have more freedoms than they did under the Bourbons, but make no mistake as to who was in charge.
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