Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Gold is too soft to use as a weapon, I think. Silver also is a relatively soft metal, unless alloyed. (Sterling silver is an alloy, most commonly with copper.) What do Western cultures do with gold and silver? Pretty much the same thing as Native cultures; they use it for adornment, and for silverware for the elites. Historically, metal weaponry has been made of alloys, for strength.
It isn't as though gold and silver were the only metals lying around. That you discover no use for iron and tin does not mean these elements were not present and available.
And the question was what use would metal weapons have been.
1. You need to visit the ruins of Native American civilizations (plural) in the Southwest (monumental architecture, extensive trade and ceremonial routes throughout the SW and down to Mexico), and read about the Mississippian mound builders.
2. They allotted land to the settlers, and lived peacefully with them, or tried to. The settlers kept demanding more land, because their farming techniques leached nutrients out of the soil, so they'd ruin the soil on the land they were given, and required more. When they tried to take land by force, it didn't work out in their favor.
3. The Mayans had the most sophisticated calendrical system in the world, and were one of the first civilizations to use the number "zero". They did have a writing system, numbers, and written histories. North American Natives also had calendrical systems, but mainly they were used for ceremony and for agricultural purposes. That's all they required. They didn't need to divide time into hourly units.
4. They had no agriculture?! Dear Heaven, educate yourself! That's an appallingly ignorant statement. They "invented" corn, for one thing. But please do your own research.
I have traveled extensively in the US southwest and seen the remains of many North American cliff dwellings... Mesa Verde, Walnut Canyon, Canyon de Chelly, Bandolier, and many other nameless and numerous 'ruins'. None of them are towns in the normal sense of the word and all have endured simply because they are embedded in natural stone outcroppings which afforded protection from the elements and other tribes. I have yet to see anything but the most rudimentary and primitive 'architecture' in any cliff dwelling in the southwest U.S.
Gold and silver occur in nature and in their natural state are useful only for adornment, as they are too soft for any other purpose.
The idea that native people 'invented corn' is absurd in the extreme and requires no response but a laugh.
No practical use of a wheel has been identified in North American indigenous cultures as far as I can ascertain. Pottery was produced by the coil and open fire technique and the wheel and oven were introduced by the Spanish in the post-Columbian era.
The Mayans had a calendar. They did not live in the areas of what is now the U.S. They were the most advanced of the lot but even they were not close to the level of advancement of Europeans. That is why they were conquered so easily by so few and so quickly.
Calling the many native cultures of preColumbian N.A. 'civilizations' is ridiculous, disingenuous, and an absurd distortion of reality that even a child can recognize.
What happened was certainly unpleasant for the vanquished. It always is.
But it was inevitable.
Last edited by PamelaIamela; 08-11-2018 at 01:46 PM..
I don't see how relative it is to label Native Americans as being this or that. Some did have amazing civilizations including the Maya and Incas. They are no less N.A. than the Mohawk or Apache.
Regardless, they had lives and families like everyone else. Their demise was inevitable but they were and are still people for goodness sake.
The Mayans had a calendar. They did not live in the areas of what is now the U.S. They were the most advanced of the lot but even they were not close to the level of advancement of Europeans. That is why they were conquered so easily by so few and so quickly.
.
Well, that along with smallpox, measles and influenza.
And I would not characterize their conquest as "easy." It began at the start of the 16th Century and was not completed until near the end of the 17th Century.
I don't see how relative it is to label Native Americans as being this or that. Some did have amazing civilizations including the Maya and Incas. They are no less N.A. than the Mohawk or Apache.
Regardless, they had lives and families like everyone else. Their demise was inevitable but they were and are still people for goodness sake.
For god's sake it's simply descriptive of human culture.. of diverse and primitive PEOPLES who inhabited a big land that existed in a stone age culture.
Some hunted bison.. some ground corn... all were born of humans.. and others sacrificed humans.
It's anthropology. No more, no less.
Get a grip, folks!
P.S. The Incas were in Peru, Mayans closer to Central America.
Just sayin'.
I've been reading this thread this past day or so...and truly enjoy it! While, I happen to live in Canada, we too have "Indigenous Natives" who were here long BEFORE we arrived too.
During my tenure of nursing on "Reserves" in both Ontario and Manitoba" I learned to truly respect much of their heritage and learned to appreciate their core belief systems. However, like any other "CULTURE" there are some Cultural Leaders on some Reserves who do take advantage of their "Citizenry/Populations" to the detriment .
The main thing I learned was their appreciation of NATURE/Environment/ and their knowledge of it's benefits!
Between the "segregation of their tribes" and isolating them often into difficult area's to maintain commerce. Often roads to and from are impassable for over half year, and obviously services for the population is lacking for water, hydro, sources for buying clothing/food and other necessities we all enjoy. i.e. One place to shop, one way to get off the reserve, no way to remove garbage/waste/construction waste etc.. It's not even safe when water filtration gets compromised... Urgent HC Issues must be flown out,so weather permitting awaits charter/medical flight often delayed/HC Clinic has NO Doctors ..only us Nurses who must support, intervene, maintain patients with whatever supplies we have. Boy,I sure learned a lot with each and every Reserve I spent time. Yes, indeed.. a fresh out of nursing school nurse would never cut it working under those conditions!
Keep, the information flowing, as I'm sure enjoying the historical insights and understanding of just how the Invasion of North America by "Settlers" affected the "Indigenous People" who where here LONG LONG before us!!
I have traveled extensively in the US southwest and seen the remains of many North American cliff dwellings... Mesa Verde, Walnut Canyon, Canyon de Chelly, Bandolier, and many other nameless and numerous 'ruins'. None of them are towns in the normal sense of the word and all have endured simply because they are embedded in natural stone outcroppings which afforded protection from the elements and other tribes. I have yet to see anything but the most rudimentary and primitive 'architecture' in any cliff dwelling in the southwest U.S.
. Chaco Canyon is the prime example. It was a town, or city, and did not involve cliff dwellings. All those examples mentioned only pertain to the Anasazi, anyway. There were other cultures south of them, that had MesoAmerican-style ball courts, and dwellings of a different type. (See: the Mogollon, and Hohokam cultures)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela;
Gold and silver occur in nature and in their natural state are useful only for adornment, as they are too soft for any other purpose.
The idea that native people 'invented corn' is absurd in the extreme and requires no response but a laugh.
The archaeologists who have traced the development of corn from its ancestor, teosinte, aren't laughing.
Roger, re: gold and silver. I posted that, earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela;
No practical use of a wheel has been identified in North American indigenous cultures as far as I can ascertain. Pottery was produced by the coil and open fire technique and the wheel and oven were introduced by the Spanish in the post-Columbian era.
The Mayans had a calendar. They did not live in the areas of what is now the U.S. They were the most advanced of the lot but even they were not close to the level of advancement of Europeans. That is why they were conquered so easily by so few and so quickly.
They were conquered because the invader had, as the book title goes, "guns, germs and steel". And horses. There also seem to be something to the legend, that there had previously been Europoid people coming through MesoAmerica, who had had a beneficial influence, so when Cortes & Co. arrived they were at first taken to be gods. (Debatable, I know.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela;
Calling the many native cultures of preColumbian N.A. 'civilizations' is ridiculous, disingenuous, and an absurd distortion of reality that even a child can recognize.
This is your opinion. Archaeologists refer to them as "civilizations" all the time, with good reason.
The idea that native people 'invented corn' is absurd in the extreme and requires no response but a laugh.
I believe that to what R4T is referring is the notion that the ancestor of what we now call corn has not been positively identified and that it appears to have been a hybrid cultivated by the indigenous people in the Americas. This is covered in 1491, which I'm sure you have read or at least heard of.
For god's sake it's simply descriptive of human culture.. of diverse and primitive PEOPLES who inhabited a big land that existed in a stone age culture.
Some hunted bison.. some ground corn... all were born of humans.. and others sacrificed humans.
It's anthropology. No more, no less.
Get a grip, folks!
P.S. The Incas were in Peru, Mayans closer to Central America.
Just sayin'.
The Incas and Mayans and Aztecs were 100 percent Native Americans and their location on a map is rather irrelevant since at the time the Spanish entered their territory, there was no Peru or "Central America".
You seem to not be able to acknowledge that some Native Americans did have civilizations with roads, lived in cities, had a form of writing, farmed crops, had the capacity of building with outstanding architecture and beautiful items made of gold that could rival some of what was being made in Europe at that time.
Yes, they were primitive compared to Europeans and Chinese. They were not so primitive compared to other aboriginal people in different parts of the world at that time.
If anyone interested in reading testimonials from Native Americans hasn't read the book "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" you need to. It chronicles the American Indian conflict from the Native point of view and discusses many battles and tribes and what happened to them from Native Americans that survived and documented their side of the story. You'll find many quotes from Chiefs and warriors including this heart breaking one from Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce.
"Tell General Howard I know his heart. What he told me before, I have it in my heart. I am tired of fighting. Our chiefs are killed; Looking Glass is dead, Too-hul-hul-sote is dead. The old men are all dead. It is the young men who say yes or no. He who led on the young men is dead. It is cold, and we have no blankets; the little children are freezing to death. My people, some of them, have run away to the hills, and have no blankets, no food. No one knows where they are—perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children, to see how many I can find. Maybe I shall find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.[20]"
Last edited by marino760; 08-12-2018 at 09:15 AM..
Far more objective than and much better history than “Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee” is James Cozzens’ recent book “The Earth is Weeping”, about the western Indian Wars after the War of the Rebellion. This book shows the warts on both sides of the conflicts. It also delves into Indian politics and the conflicts between those Indians who favored war and those who favored appeasement.
It’s interesting how quite a few soldiers who were very successful fighting the southern rebels during the Rebellion fell flat as Indian fighters, especially Hancock and Gibbon who were first rate corps commanders during the Rebellion. This book also has a more critical view of Crook and a more favorable view of Miles than is common.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
