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You are really playing down the condition of Rosemary. Learning disabilities? A bit more than that, quite a bit.
Tell us more please....I read that her behaviour didnt get too bad till she was a teenager and she started disappearing from the house...Placid and easygoing as a child and teenager, the maturing Rosemary Kennedy became increasingly assertive and rebellious. She was also reportedly subject to violent mood changes. Some observers have since attributed this behavior to her inability to conform to siblings who were expected to perform to high standards, as well as the hormonal surges associated with puberty. Concerns were also raised about a potential "sexual awakening" and that as she was considered one of the more attractive Kennedy daughters she would be either sexually abused or become pregnant.[13] In any case, the family had difficulty dealing with her stormy moods and reckless behavior. Rosemary had begun to sneak out at night from the convent school in Washington, D.C., where she was cared for and educated.[14] Her occasionally erratic behavior frustrated her parents, who expected all of their children to behave appropriately, be goal-oriented, and act competitively. Joseph P. Kennedy was especially worried that his daughter's behavior would shame and embarrass the family and possibly damage his and his children's political careers
Last edited by dizzybint; 03-16-2019 at 08:29 AM..
Tell us more please....I read that her behaviour didnt get too bad till she was a teenager and she started disappearing from the house...Placid and easygoing as a child and teenager, the maturing Rosemary Kennedy became increasingly assertive and rebellious. She was also reportedly subject to violent mood changes. Some observers have since attributed this behavior to her inability to conform to siblings who were expected to perform to high standards, as well as the hormonal surges associated with puberty. Concerns were also raised about a potential "sexual awakening" and that as she was considered one of the more attractive Kennedy daughters she would be either sexually abused or become pregnant.[13] In any case, the family had difficulty dealing with her stormy moods and reckless behavior. Rosemary had begun to sneak out at night from the convent school in Washington, D.C., where she was cared for and educated.[14] Her occasionally erratic behavior frustrated her parents, who expected all of their children to behave appropriately, be goal-oriented, and act competitively. Joseph P. Kennedy was especially worried that his daughter's behavior would shame and embarrass the family and possibly damage his and his children's political careers
All of this is very terrible and not the way someone with her disability would be treated today.
However, what the Kennedy family did with Rosemary was very typical for the time. That is what families did with people with disabilities back than. They hid them. The best place to hide them was in an institution. Its amazing to think that people believed some sort of "shame" attached to having a child with a disability like mental retardation, but that's exactly how they felt.
I don't approve of what they did, but context is everything. The behavior of the family with respect to Rosemary was all too typical. Plus, the lobotomy was recommended by physicians.
To be fair that is what things boiled down to for most if not all Irish Catholic wives then and until really rather recently. You probably could add German, Italian and a few other European groups to that list as well. Frenchwomen however long ago seemed to lose interest in producing babies just because the state wanted or whatever.
At least Rose Kennedy and other lace curtain Irish of her set were amply rewarded for their troubles. The woman never had to worry about money, and moved in social or other circles her mother or grandmother never would have gotten near.
I heard that term years ago when someone suggested I was "lace-curtain Irish" (I'm actually not Irish at all except for a great-great-grandmother born in Dublin) and I asked what it meant. The person told me it meant a wealthier Protestant Irish person.
The Kennedys were certainly NOT Protestant, but perhaps the person who told me what it meant was wrong.
You are really playing down the condition of Rosemary. Learning disabilities? A bit more than that, quite a bit.
Yes, Rosemary was mentally retarded. People with learning disabilities may struggle in one area or another, but generally they are not low-IQ and can function normally in society, hold jobs, etc.
My brother is 51 and has dyslexia, a learning disability. He's never going to sit down and read a novel, but he has his own painting and landscaping business and can handle his billing and invoices to his customers.
My aunt was mentally retarded. She had the learning capacity of a five-year-old, and could just about write her name. Rosemary Kennedy was more like my aunt.
She was left a hell of a lot worse after that procedure and why did her father never visit her or allow her family to know about where she was... No Joe didnt want the embarrassment to fall on the family when they wanted power so much... so he hid the woman away.
I heard that term years ago when someone suggested I was "lace-curtain Irish" (I'm actually not Irish at all except for a great-great-grandmother born in Dublin) and I asked what it meant. The person told me it meant a wealthier Protestant Irish person.
The Kennedys were certainly NOT Protestant, but perhaps the person who told me what it meant was wrong.
She was left a hell of a lot worse after that procedure and why did her father never visit her or allow her family to know about where she was... No Joe didnt want the embarrassment to fall on the family when they wanted power so much... so he hid the woman away.
While in no way standing up for Joe Kennedy and his treatment of daughter Rosemary; in context of the times it wasn't that much worse than what others did to family members who weren't *right*.
Mental illness was still largely not understood; this allowed all sorts of quacks and or even horrible procedures to gain acceptance, even if discredited later on. Lobotomy was one such treatment.
Until drugs like Thorazine (chlorpromazine) and Lithium came along there really was little that could be done to really address many forms of mental illness. That is give persons affected chances at living a somewhat normal life.
While things had somewhat improved in care of mentally ill by turn of last century, years prior to WWI or even WWII were pretty much the same old. Families were advised to put away the mentally ill and basically forget they existed.
British royal family were no exception. Prince John, youngest son of George V and Queen Mary was basically shut up and put away; this earned him the title "the lost prince". Well Prince John wasn't "lost", the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (later Windsor) family knew exactly where he was and why.
Great links. Always interested in word/phrase origins, and the joke was terrible but funny. I just messaged it to my half-Irish daughter to share with her Irish boyfriend.
While in no way standing up for Joe Kennedy and his treatment of daughter Rosemary; in context of the times it wasn't that much worse than what others did to family members who weren't *right*.
Mental illness was still largely not understood; this allowed all sorts of quacks and or even horrible procedures to gain acceptance, even if discredited later on. Lobotomy was one such treatment.
Until drugs like Thorazine (chlorpromazine) and Lithium came along there really was little that could be done to really address many forms of mental illness. That is give persons affected chances at living a somewhat normal life.
While things had somewhat improved in care of mentally ill by turn of last century, years prior to WWI or even WWII were pretty much the same old. Families were advised to put away the mentally ill and basically forget they existed.
British royal family were no exception. Prince John, youngest son of George V and Queen Mary was basically shut up and put away; this earned him the title "the lost prince". Well Prince John wasn't "lost", the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (later Windsor) family knew exactly where he was and why.
You're confusing mental illness with mental retardation here. Rosemary Kennedy was not mentally ill. Brilliantly intelligent people can be mentally ill, like John Nash.
Rosemary was mentally retarded, a person with an IQ lower than the normal range.
However, your point that people just used to stash away such family members is accurate.
As I mentioned upthread, my mother's sister was mentally retarded. She also had cerebral palsy, which affects the control and movement of the body. The brain damage that caused both conditions occurred at birth when she was deprived of oxygen by a superstitious nurse who wouldn't remove the amniotic sac from over her face because children born that way were said to be able to see the future.
It was 1934. There was no special ed, no help or services for such children. People, including doctors, told my grandmother to put my aunt in an institution. She refused and took care of her daughter herself until she fell and broke her leg at 83 and my mother and brothers took over and placed my aunt in a well-run nursing home close by.
But people still did put away "embarrassing" family members up into recent times. My sister's friend married into a well-to-do, locally political family. She was married for several months before she learned that her new husband had an older brother with Down's syndrome living in an institution. The parents visited him a couple of times a year and paid the bill in the meantime. This was the late 70s.
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