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Nobody drinks warm beer over here! Think I would puke. I know that during the civil war, working class citizens of Northern England refused to help the South due to the treatment of slaves. But southern gun boats were built in Lancashire because of the power from the factory owners and elite. I know the treatment of American slaves was disgusting but the British working class ( never mentioned in Hollywood) stood in unity where they could. America and Britain were still closely linked then
In addition to which Washington came to see slavery as a wrong, and decided that he would free his slaves upon his death. He failed to convince Martha to do the same, though I believe (not sure) that her son/his step-son did upon her death.
Jefferson's personal writings indicate that he felt the black African to be an inferior human; thus, his lofty writings about freedom were limited to white freedom. My own opinion after reading books about Jefferson and some of his writings that he was writing for history not particularly for real life. He seems a bit of the poseur, starry-eyed about the Roman republic as were many of his contemporaries and in real life had a great taste for the life of lordship.
Washington's writings indicate that he felt slavery was wrong primarily because it diminished whites to enslave, and less because of what happened to blacks who were enslaved. Jefferson's legal opposition to slavery was real. In both Virginia and the federal government, he made earnest proposals to limit slavery that were blocked by pro-slavery elements. Washington also treated his slaves with less 'benevolence' (I don't like using that word, because there's nothing benevolent about slavery, but you get the idea) than Washington, who seemed to view them more as a commodity than did Jefferson. Ultimately, it seems that Jefferson was more enlightened about the issue, but that makes his actions even more objectionable than Washington's. Jefferson was constantly in debt, and he repeatedly put his financial interests about what he knew to be the morally proper course of action.
Nonetheless, Washington and Jefferson had long and illustrious careers, and they are rightly celebrated for their great contributions to American independence and the creation of the early American state. Lee and Davis and the like, on the other hand, are celebrated for nothing other than their service to a state expressly created in order to perpetuate the institution of slavery. The difference is enormous.
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Originally Posted by England Dan
Nobody drinks warm beer over here! Think I would puke. I know that during the civil war, working class citizens of Northern England refused to help the South due to the treatment of slaves. But southern gun boats were built in Lancashire because of the power from the factory owners and elite. I know the treatment of American slaves was disgusting but the British working class ( never mentioned in Hollywood) stood in unity where they could. America and Britain were still closely linked then
The beer thing is another rather debious sterotype, in reality most on tap beer and larger is served verey cold cold, as are many beers, and even in relation to real ale and bitter, they are not served warm but at pub celler tempreture which is certainly not warm. These type of real cask ales aren't served ice cold as it would detract from their unique flavours.
British people also generally their cans of beer in the fridge, especially in the summer, just like most other nations.
Oh here we go, is this another one of those 'lets blame the English (note - not usually the British)' for all of the worlds problems thread! So the age old human tradition of slavery is the fault of the English I suppose? Stalin murdering all those Russians - probably the fault of the English...........Roman butchery? Because of the English no doubt, the Conquistadors? Definitely because of the English, Native North Americans? Wiped out no doubt because of the English, apartheid in the Southern states of the US up to the 1960's! English b*stards eh. Ghengis Khan was probably a native Londoner, Adolf Hitler? Definitely a Yorkshire name, the holocaust has got to be thanks to the English. the Hutus and Tutsis were only slaying each other because of some English chap (probably). The Belgians murdering their way through the Congo were probably 'English' Belgians eh. The Scots though - salt of the earth they are. Thank god the rest of the world are such 'peace loving' people or else we really would be in trouble!
Until recently the controversy seemed to be less about the flags, a piece of cloth that is a historical symbol, and more about the motivation and intent of the person displaying or waving the flag. The Confederate flag or the Naxi flag are loser flags and there is no reason to use them to make a statement unless the statement is intended to **** someone off. The Union Jack is a winner's flag and represents more of a positive symbolism. The Brits were involved in slavery and colonialism but that is only a small part of the symbolism (unless one chooses only to use that to further their victimhood).
Lately, the complaints against the "Betsy Ross" flag or some obscure Revolutionary-era flags make the news but don't seem to gain any real support. In some respects, the complainers have lost sight of why they are upset. The racist history associated with the Nazi or Confederate Battle flags makes them a clear target of opposition and a tool that some use to intimidate.
My wife is from Ireland so she is not a fan of the British by default but guess what she is an intelligent woman that does not fly off the handle in false outrage over a statue or a flag and she had relatives that were political prisoners when she was a kid. I wonder if she would be eligible for some sort of reparations?
The Brits were absolutely terrible to her people yet when we went to London a few years back we toured the city and saw the sites and had no fear of the crushing oppression that was all around us but then again my wife refuses to play the perpetual victim.
I'm just wondering how many other nations have an ongoing history of going so far out of their way to grab people, take those people out of their land, and then take those people to a place where they would barely manage to survive because they did not have the skills to fully adapt after being forcefully displaced? Wouldn't one race enslaving another so much unlike themselves and from a far away continent cause a deeper divide than a people enslaving their own or those who are close by?
Didn't slavery all throughout history occur between closely-related peoples? An exception would be American slavery, of course. For instance, the Brits did not go far to meddle with the Irish. They are also the same race of people, aren't they?
Less similarities, less understanding and more resentment. I'd say that's why South Africa and the U.S. have been politically very much alike.
My wife is from Ireland so she is not a fan of the British by default but guess what she is an intelligent woman that does not fly off the handle in false outrage over a statue or a flag and she had relatives that were political prisoners when she was a kid. I wonder if she would be eligible for some sort of reparations?
The Brits were absolutely terrible to her people yet when we went to London a few years back we toured the city and saw the sites and had no fear of the crushing oppression that was all around us but then again my wife refuses to play the perpetual victim.
Crushing oppression all around you! Never heard such a load of bollox.
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