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Old 01-04-2020, 09:19 AM
 
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Back on this after the busy week. The state of NY also had Red Summer events happen. In Syracuse, many Southern "blacks" were brought in as strikebreakers at a factory..... Yes, they were attacked but at no loss of life.

NYC, had a problem similar to the one in Philadelphia and New London, CT in that "blacks" moved from the South to white neighborhoods. This started in July and had a death toll of 120.
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:49 PM
 
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America had waves of targeted terrorism exacted against African Americans prior to and after the Red Summer of 1919.

It is ignored because America likes to ignore the domestic terrorism that was imposed upon the African American demographic and instead likes to gloss over it and act like racism ended in 1865 (and today 1965).

As an African American, I've shared on other forums here that IMO slavery was not all that much of a detriment to African Americans. If our ancestors had been left to grow and join society without the overt oppression of white supremacy terrorism after the Civil War IMO there would be no "racial gaps" to talk about today.

The Red Summer was based up on the idea that black people had an inferior "place" in society. It was the same concept that spurred the creation of the KKK post Civil War and caused a huge amount of black people to be lynched, tortured, murdered, and held as slaves after the war. I focus a lot of my personal research on African American history of the 19th century and there were more murders and issues of aggression against black people between 1866 and 1900 than in 1919-1921.

The rise of white supremacy in the 1880s and 1890s was heavily ignored by local, state, and federal governments. The period of 1880 through WW2 IMO is the most interesting of all eras of African American history in regards to Civil Rights and struggles with oppression and terrorism.
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:05 PM
 
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I also think it is important to not frame these events as "race riots" as they were a continuance of terrorism imposed on black people in this nation. Framing them as riots makes it seems like they were not connected when they were. Some good resources to read would be old copies of "The Crisis." Dr. WEB DuBois wrote a lot about that era in his fledgling publication and they did much more detailed reports than the mainstream media of the day.

These occurrences before and after 1919 were always centered around black people not doing what they were told by whites - what white society wanted them to do. One of the things that black people have always been told to do was to shut up and "wait" for equality and freedom.

Note, I most heavily focus my personal research for my family and local community (I'm a local black historian of where I live) on free persons of color in the Great Lakes area prior to the Civil War. Nearly all Great Lakes states had white people going into black neighborhoods and towns or just their homes and attacking them and killing them for various reasons. Typically the whites were upset that black people were getting paid the same wages they were. Whites were upset when black people pooled resources and built schools (they didn't want free black children educated and prevented them from public schools in many areas so black people would form their own schools with their own resources via their churches and white mobs would come and burn them down and kill black people). White people were upset when black people wanted to have certain kinds of jobs (they were not staying in their place). White people would make up stories about crime and blame black people for the crimes - even creating statistics that left out white criminals and only focused on black ones as a means to arrest black people and put them into work houses. White people have always been mad that black people moved where they lived (hinting at your post from 1/4 - this is what drove many states to basically outlaw free blacks from being able to live in those states cause whites didn't want to live near blacks). White people were upset that black people didn't want to work for them - there were actually mobs that went and forced black people to work in the early 19th century, this is more well known in the 1920s though as the Great Flood of the Mississippi basin the 1920s had a lot of black people forced at gunpoint to work in camps cleaning up the floods without pay. It is a reason many historians believe for the 2nd wave of the Great Migration, especially with families moving from the Mississippi area to Chicago and Detroit.

I do feel studying these eras makes one really understand the role of the ideology of white supremacy had on our country. Many folks outside of academic circles don't understand white supremacy and how it is imbedded in this nation in regards to the treatment of black people and other non-white populations, especially native Americans. There was a hierarchy developed and implemented in this nation and its impact is still with us. 1919 was only unique IMO because more of the events were in the news. For the era I study in the Great Lakes, often those events are not in the news and the only references are the fact that there used to be black people there and 10 years later there are none in a particular town. Some of those people moved to other places, like Canada and gave interviews about their experiences so records do survive. There is a much better chronology of the rise of white supremacy after the Civil War if you review information about Wilmington NC in 1898 - the only coup that ever happened in America. 1919 was related entirely IMO to that occurrence and the rise of ideas about whites needing to rule supreme and blacks being inferior and able to be terrorized and controlled by white without any repercussions.
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Old 01-07-2020, 05:03 PM
 
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Residinghere2007, I appreciate your two posts along with the provided additional insight. No doubt the targeted terrorism against the (eu)melanated population was strong. I have to see if the pseudo race science was being pushed around this time because it was relentless. You also made a good point too about them (so called Blacks) being left alone and allowed to thrive (but that would mess up the Underclass in this Caste system).

Also, feel free to post some of your research findings on this thread since some things are connected or was the precursor to Red Summer (or happened after).

Last edited by 80s_kid; 01-07-2020 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80s_kid View Post
That's interesting. The book that I'm reading did mention that Italian guys were planting bombs around many cities around that time and even one guy tripped and blew himself up while trying to kill Palmer in Washington DC. Back to Red Summer related history, the only city that had quick mob control tactics was Charleston, SC. Melanated Americans were also accused of being linked with Bolshevism. The media and politicians were awful during that time.
Ah yes - that culminated in the Palmer Raids.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Ah yes - that culminated in the Palmer Raids.
Lots of interesting things that took place but like Residinghere2007 said, whoever's writing the history books have kind of glossed over things by calling it riots and not mentioning the aftereffects the massacres left on the people who were on the receiving end.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
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1919 was an interesting year, but be careful of revisionists. You had the end of WWI. Communism was banned. Women received the right to vote. Alcohol was abolished. Pancho Villa invaded. Chicago had horrible race riots. The union riots of the railroad ended in lawmakers taking control of the situation directly.

There were race riots. The worst was in Chicago. The Chicago race riots. It was an epic fight. Chicago was long segregated by neighborhood. As a port of entry, every group had their neighborhood. Two giant groups were coming up from the South. The Irish and the African Americans. These were bad, but realize at the time, you stuck to your neighborhood. If I were Greek and started moving into the Ukrainian Village, I could expect a lot of trouble. Still, these were terrible even by Chicago standards at the time.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/natio...ory-story.html

However, "Red" at that time dealt with communists. The socialists of America were lead by a man named Debs. Debs wanted the US to surrender the war and exit, and then to have the government seize the means of production and employ workers at a fair wage.

Quoting Debs directly:

We Socialists say: Take possession of the mines; call the miner to work and return to him the equivalent of the value of his product.” He can then build himself a comfortable home; live in it; enjoy it with his family. He can provide himself and his wife and children with clothes — good clothes — not shoddy; wholesome food in abundance, education for the children, and the chance to live the lives of civilized human beings, while at the same time the people will get coal at just what it costs to mine it."

The socialist threat was not an election ploy at that time. These people were serious about taking property by force. He actively sought militant union leaders to combine power. Mail bombs were detonated in eight US cities and unrest was fomented everywhere. After Debs was arrested, a series of disruptions was made across the country in the May Day strikes. Disruptions were presented around the world as well. With far greater damage in places like Hungary and Germany.

https://www.nytimes.com/1919/05/02/a...civilians.html
(Sorry, paywall, but the brief is free)

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/yr-1919/

Public enemy #1 were the communists, socialists and anarchists that were revolting around the world. By the end of the year over 10,000 would be arrested and some deported out of the country. The Palmer Raids were famous, with a significant number of Italian immigrants returned to Italy with another element as growing mob influence was attempted to be ended.

I bring it up because "Red Summer" was a term I hadn't heard before. It appears to have a circular ties of basis and appears to set the stage of a grand KKK vs African American setup. The reality was something much more involved.
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Old 01-09-2020, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Roaring '20s
1,864 posts, read 479,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
1919 was an interesting year, but be careful of revisionists. You had the end of WWI. Communism was banned. Women received the right to vote. Alcohol was abolished. Pancho Villa invaded. Chicago had horrible race riots. The union riots of the railroad ended in lawmakers taking control of the situation directly.

There were race riots. The worst was in Chicago. The Chicago race riots. It was an epic fight. Chicago was long segregated by neighborhood. As a port of entry, every group had their neighborhood. Two giant groups were coming up from the South. The Irish and the African Americans. These were bad, but realize at the time, you stuck to your neighborhood. If I were Greek and started moving into the Ukrainian Village, I could expect a lot of trouble. Still, these were terrible even by Chicago standards at the time.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/natio...ory-story.html

However, "Red" at that time dealt with communists. The socialists of America were lead by a man named Debs. Debs wanted the US to surrender the war and exit, and then to have the government seize the means of production and employ workers at a fair wage.

Quoting Debs directly:

We Socialists say: Take possession of the mines; call the miner to work and return to him the equivalent of the value of his product.” He can then build himself a comfortable home; live in it; enjoy it with his family. He can provide himself and his wife and children with clothes — good clothes — not shoddy; wholesome food in abundance, education for the children, and the chance to live the lives of civilized human beings, while at the same time the people will get coal at just what it costs to mine it."

The socialist threat was not an election ploy at that time. These people were serious about taking property by force. He actively sought militant union leaders to combine power. Mail bombs were detonated in eight US cities and unrest was fomented everywhere. After Debs was arrested, a series of disruptions was made across the country in the May Day strikes. Disruptions were presented around the world as well. With far greater damage in places like Hungary and Germany.

https://www.nytimes.com/1919/05/02/a...civilians.html
(Sorry, paywall, but the brief is free)

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/yr-1919/

Public enemy #1 were the communists, socialists and anarchists that were revolting around the world. By the end of the year over 10,000 would be arrested and some deported out of the country. The Palmer Raids were famous, with a significant number of Italian immigrants returned to Italy with another element as growing mob influence was attempted to be ended.

I bring it up because "Red Summer" was a term I hadn't heard before. It appears to have a circular ties of basis and appears to set the stage of a grand KKK vs African American setup. The reality was something much more involved.
The term red summer had nothing - nothing - to do with communism. The appellation of red as a term for communists did not render all other definitions of the word obsolete.

When this thread first appeared, I myself wondered about the term red. As I noted in a post at the time, red as a symbol for the blood shed seemed the most likely explanation, though I also noted that it happened to be coincident with hysteria of the first red scare.

Anyway, with you dragging the thread off into a long digression about socialism, I decided to do a little more digging. I can find no link whatsoever between the red summer, or even the term, and communism. But I did find these:

Quote:
One hundred years ago this summer, white Americans violently, industriously, energetically and viciously killed black people in lynchings, riots and well-organized mass murders. “Because it was so bloody,” Wall Street Journal reporter Cameron McWhirter wrote in his book "Red Summer: The Summer of 1919 and the Awakening of Black America," NAACP field secretary “James Weldon Johnson ... called this season the Red Summer.”
https://religionnews.com/2019/08/16/...itics-of-hate/

Quote:
The long “Red Summer of 1919” saw a brutal outburst of mob violence directed against African Americans across the country. James Weldon Johnson, field secretary of the NAACP, was the one to name it the “Red Summer.” This “red” was for blood. Among other horrors, there were race riots, ninety-seven lynchings, and a pogrom-like massacre of somewhere between 100 and 237 people in Elaine, Arkansas.
https://daily.jstor.org/the-mob-viol...he-red-summer/

Note that James Weldon Johnson was not a communist. He had a long, distinguished career as an academic, a poet, a civil rights activist, and a diplomat (he was a political appointee of President Theodore Roosevelt). Fear of communists had nothing to do with red summer, and even if that had been the case it would not have been in any way a justifying or even mitigating excuse for the mass killing of blacks.

Your admonition to 'be careful of revisionists' is rather ironic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80s_kid View Post
Lots of interesting things that took place but like Residinghere2007 said, whoever's writing the history books have kind of glossed over things by calling it riots and not mentioning the aftereffects the massacres left on the people who were on the receiving end.
Essentially, a term like riot - used instead of more accurate terms like massacre or pogrom - are examples of political correctness meant to 'clean up' history. Were textbooks more honest, certain states (those with a perceived interest in glossing over the subjugation of blacks in American history) simply would refuse to use those textbooks, lest they offend those readers whose interest in national history is to be presented with a fairy-tale rather than, you know, actual history.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:26 AM
 
1,497 posts, read 687,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
The term red summer had nothing - nothing - to do with communism. The appellation of red as a term for communists did not render all other definitions of the word obsolete.

When this thread first appeared, I myself wondered about the term red. As I noted in a post at the time, red as a symbol for the blood shed seemed the most likely explanation, though I also noted that it happened to be coincident with hysteria of the first red scare.

Anyway, with you dragging the thread off into a long digression about socialism, I decided to do a little more digging. I can find no link whatsoever between the red summer, or even the term, and communism. But I did find these:


https://religionnews.com/2019/08/16/...itics-of-hate/


https://daily.jstor.org/the-mob-viol...he-red-summer/

Note that James Weldon Johnson was not a communist. He had a long, distinguished career as an academic, a poet, a civil rights activist, and a diplomat (he was a political appointee of President Theodore Roosevelt). Fear of communists had nothing to do with red summer, and even if that had been the case it would not have been in any way a justifying or even mitigating excuse for the mass killing of blacks.

Your admonition to 'be careful of revisionists' is rather ironic.



Essentially, a term like riot - used instead of more accurate terms like massacre or pogrom - are examples of political correctness meant to 'clean up' history. Were textbooks more honest, certain states (those with a perceived interest in glossing over the subjugation of blacks in American history) simply would refuse to use those textbooks, lest they offend those readers whose interest in national history is to be presented with a fairy-tale rather than, you know, actual history.
Wow! Thorough post and good use of links. Artillery77 brought some things (like the compounded paranoia) but as you correctly stated, Red Summer had nothing to do with the Red Scare of Communism. Regarding, the textbooks including it....States wouldn't want Elementary to high school kids learning about this. It would be awkward as a teacher in Arkansas teaching about an event where local cops attacked and killed Vets (for example). I already know that a psychological effect was left but I'm trying to find examples of how the survivors coped with life after that. Again, great post man.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:02 AM
 
1,497 posts, read 687,760 times
Reputation: 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
1919 was an interesting year, but be careful of revisionists. You had the end of WWI. Communism was banned. Women received the right to vote. Alcohol was abolished. Pancho Villa invaded. Chicago had horrible race riots. The union riots of the railroad ended in lawmakers taking control of the situation directly.

There were race riots. The worst was in Chicago. The Chicago race riots. It was an epic fight. Chicago was long segregated by neighborhood. As a port of entry, every group had their neighborhood. Two giant groups were coming up from the South. The Irish and the African Americans. These were bad, but realize at the time, you stuck to your neighborhood. If I were Greek and started moving into the Ukrainian Village, I could expect a lot of trouble. Still, these were terrible even by Chicago standards at the time.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/natio...ory-story.html

However, "Red" at that time dealt with communists. The socialists of America were lead by a man named Debs. Debs wanted the US to surrender the war and exit, and then to have the government seize the means of production and employ workers at a fair wage.

Quoting Debs directly:

We Socialists say: Take possession of the mines; call the miner to work and return to him the equivalent of the value of his product.” He can then build himself a comfortable home; live in it; enjoy it with his family. He can provide himself and his wife and children with clothes — good clothes — not shoddy; wholesome food in abundance, education for the children, and the chance to live the lives of civilized human beings, while at the same time the people will get coal at just what it costs to mine it."

The socialist threat was not an election ploy at that time. These people were serious about taking property by force. He actively sought militant union leaders to combine power. Mail bombs were detonated in eight US cities and unrest was fomented everywhere. After Debs was arrested, a series of disruptions was made across the country in the May Day strikes. Disruptions were presented around the world as well. With far greater damage in places like Hungary and Germany.

https://www.nytimes.com/1919/05/02/a...civilians.html
(Sorry, paywall, but the brief is free)

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/yr-1919/

Public enemy #1 were the communists, socialists and anarchists that were revolting around the world. By the end of the year over 10,000 would be arrested and some deported out of the country. The Palmer Raids were famous, with a significant number of Italian immigrants returned to Italy with another element as growing mob influence was attempted to be ended.

I bring it up because "Red Summer" was a term I hadn't heard before. It appears to have a circular ties of basis and appears to set the stage of a grand KKK vs African American setup. The reality was something much more involved.
Honestly, riots are mostly injuries and loss of properties, people ceased living. You needed to know what life was like for "Blacks" in the South during that time (share croppers were getting played daily and worked their tail off only to end up having to owe money). Getting underpaid up North was a far better option (at that time) over another form of slavery in the South. Red Summer was in reference to the great bloodshed around America in a couple of months (a guy was burned alive in Omaha and another guy was lynched and shot multiple times after death and in some instances, so-called Blacks had body parts taken as souvenirs or trophies by people who made up the death mobs). Well, Red Summer as a term to reference a very dark summer (one actually brought to light) does not seem to be involved with this kkk vs melanated people thing. That's a little too stage playish. Granted, Red Summer is new information and the reasons/causes behind it is layered and many people need time to digest it. Residinghere2007 and myself are both so-called blacks and we both understand that it boiled down to status and place in the society... Me being younger, I'm still appalled with how law enforcement handled things and how things played out legally.
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