Do you think Stalin gave any thought to attacking the allies? (WW2, war)

[GoodDawg]

Winston Churchill was, reportedly, favorable to the idea of kicking the Soviets out of eastern Europe but that Truman wanted no part of such an endeavor.

I've often wondered if Joseph Stalin ever considered invading western Germany, and/or beyond, in order to claim all of Germany, as well as Italy and perhaps Denmark, Belgium, etc.

Any idea?

[2x3x29x41]

Originally Posted by GoodDawg

Winston Churchill was, reportedly, favorable to the idea of kicking the Soviets out of eastern Europe but that Truman wanted no part of such an endeavor.

The UK studied the feasibilty of Operation Unthinkable at the end of World War II. There were two primary reasons for this. One, to guarantee democracy in post-war Poland. Two, in the event that the Red Army moved west beyond the agreed-upon lines dividing up Europe. It was determined that the former was not worth the cost (a protracted and exceedingly costly war - to say nothing of the knock-on effects on the Pacific campaign).

But remember, analyzing a possibility is very different from actively desiring such a course of action. After all, War Plan Crimson - circa 1930 - didn't mean that the U.S. was interested in invading Canada. They just thought it prudent to have the operation plans to do so ready and available.

Originally Posted by GoodDawg

I've often wondered if Joseph Stalin ever considered invading western Germany, and/or beyond, in order to claim all of Germany, as well as Italy and perhaps Denmark, Belgium, etc.

Any idea?

Just like with Churchill considering - ie, contemplating and investigating - the possibility of the Western Allies moving against the USSR, I'm sure that Stalin did consider it.

But as with Churchill, it absolutely was not worth the cost, nor did it entail any particular assurance of success. While Soviet forces were relatively secure against the West in the land they held in 1945, due to numbers and being able to play defense in the event of a Western attack, they were also exhausted. They desperately needed time, and Stalin was well aware of that. Supply lines were long, and all the looting of conquered countries that Stalin could imagine (and he had quite the imagination in that regard) couldn't offset the resources the Soviets had to generate to keep the Red Army supplied and those countries supplied to the point of them being worthy war booty in the first place. The USSR badly needed some years of peace to recover and reconstitute itself.

Furthermore, Stalin generally had what he wanted. Germany was beaten and subdued (although, always paranoid, he worried incessantly about a western Germany being revived and anti-Soviet). He had the buffer he wanted, mostly (he didn't have Finland, but if unable to completely subjugate them he did manage to ... well ... Finlandize them). Also, he wasn't an idiot. Stalin generally chose to attack only when conditions were overwhelmingly in his favor. Stalin was prone to bad choices (in many ways he blundered his way through the pre-war years, the Winter War was ill-advised, and he made a lot of poor decisions in the immediate wake of Barbarossa) but he had gotten more strategically astute during the course of the war (even as his paranoia was increasing).

Recall that Soviet forces liberated (with local support) Finnmark in northern Norway, as well as the very strategic Danish island of Bornholm in the Baltic - closer to what would become East Germany than to Denmark or the western part of Germany. Yet the Soviets withdrew from both of these regions. Not out of any benevolence by Stalin, of course, but due to the pragmatic reality that trying to hold them would be far more costly than surrendering them.

In a nutshell, there just wasn't much in an attack on the Western Allies for Joe. Remember, Stalin created the whole self-serving 'Socialism in One Country' idea as an alternative to Marxist dogma of world revolution/permanent revolution, because endlessly antagonizing powerful countries would ultimately threaten the most important thing of all - Stalin's personal position. That was ultimately the bottom line.

Note:
The Cold War: A World History, by Odd Arne Westad is a useful source for Stalin's thinking in 1945, drawing heavily from Soviet archives.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by GoodDawg

Winston Churchill was, reportedly, favorable to the idea of kicking the Soviets out of eastern Europe but that Truman wanted no part of such an endeavor.

I've often wondered if Joseph Stalin ever considered invading western Germany, and/or beyond, in order to claim all of Germany, as well as Italy and perhaps Denmark, Belgium, etc.

Any idea?

On August 6, 1945, an American B-29 Enola Gay dropped something on the Japanese city of Hiroshima that totaly changed Soviet thinking and the worlds thinking about the nature of future major wars. Stalin would never have risked such action knowing that similar weapns could be used on Soviet Cities.

By the 29 August 1949, the Soviet Union secretly conducted its first successful atomic bomb weapon test, and any brief window of one side having such weapons and not the other was now forever closed.

What followed was a nuclear standoff that was known as the Cold War rather than real war which would have destroyed the entire world.

[Dd714]

Well, Stalin pretty much already got what he wanted - Eastern Europe - a series of buffer and satellite states between Soviet Russia and the west. He had by far the largest military in the world at the end of the war, his military never really demobilized like we did, he indeed probably could have walked through western Europe but at the end of the war tensions were indeed building but just not at that "cold war" hostility point yet. Also he had to stabilize his new puppet states.

And there was of course, the nuclear monopoly by the US.

[msgsing]

I believe General Patton expressed some support for attacking the Soviets and even using the Germans as allies to push them out of Eastern Europe.

[ukrkoz]

It is strictly a gossip, and that's its value.
But, gosspi says that, when RA entered Berlin and war pretty much was over, plus Austria was liberated, Zhukov allegedly approached Joseph Vissarionovish and said - Comrade Generalissimo, just say a word, our tanks will stop at Atlantic coast.
To what he, apparently, responded negatively. Obviously.
As I said, it's just a gossip. But they could have easily done that. Easily. Momentum, power and spirit in the troops was great plus, there was a lot of pro Soviet sentiment in Western Europe countries and, socialist parties were very strong in them.
Likely, lack of at the moment not available nuclear weapon played its role too. Deterrent.

[Old Gringo]

The Soviet Union was bled nearly to death in WW2, suffering at least half of the war's total deaths.

My bet is that Stalin was a whole lot more concerned that the Allies would get together and roll his largely spent forces back to within the USSR's borders. He wouldn't have been able to withstand such an onslaught.

Fortunately, the public in ALL countries was exhausted by the war effort and would not support such a gamble. Truman, Churchill and even Stalin would likely have been removed had they rolled the dice.

Wiser heads prevailed.

[Grandstander]

Unlike the western allies, the Soviets achieved their war aims when the Germans surrendered. At that point Germany was dismembered so as to make it a non threat. Russia had been pounded twice by Germany in the 20th Century and it cost millions of lives both times. Now that threat was finally neutralized and a buffer zone of Soviet controlled states made this even stronger.

Great Britain and France had originally gone to war in reaction to Poland being occupied by a despotic foreign power. At the end of the war, Poland was still occupied by a despotic foreign power, only it was the Soviets now who had replaced the Nazis. Thus, the allied war aim had been frustrated. I can see where Churchill might have wanted to push on to try and achieve that war goal, but as for the Soviets, they had all that they needed.

[msgsing]

Churchill’s pipe dream. After the end of World War II the Brits we’re broke. Major English towns with large areas consisting of bombed out rubble not fully cleaned up until the 1960’s. And all those troublesome colonies clamoring for independence.

[shanv3]

Originally Posted by GoodDawg

Winston Churchill was, reportedly, favorable to the idea of kicking the Soviets out of eastern Europe but that Truman wanted no part of such an endeavor.

I've often wondered if Joseph Stalin ever considered invading western Germany, and/or beyond, in order to claim all of Germany, as well as Italy and perhaps Denmark, Belgium, etc.

Any idea?

I wish Stalin had indeed completed what Hitler failed to complete - defeat Britain, especially that dog Churchill.

Churchill is considered a true war hero and all, but it was at the back of Russian civilians and casualties the WWII was won for the allies. Technically Germanys only and huge loss was against teh Russians. Someone should hav reminded Britains appeasement policy of Germany against Russia. And he should have taken revenge few years later atlest.