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Old Yesterday, 05:08 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
3,273 posts, read 1,275,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post

IMO, JFK was timid. (in action)

JFK talked a good game but was not forthcoming with implementation. MLK's March on Washington, with his "I have a Dream..." speech was intended to embarrass and hopefully motivate JFK to action.


Most of the major, landmark advances in civil rights issues came during GOP administrations. Was that because the GOP was really more progressive than the Dems on these issues, or was it because they finally relented and provided bipartisan support?


Once the outright segregationists of the Dixiecrat wing of that party were expunged (mostly by old age & attrition) progress could be made in legislation. Over the last 50 yrs or so, it looks like the main difference in dealing with these problems by the parties is the "give them a fish" vs "give them a fishing pole" attitude. ..You can't legislate morality.
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Old Yesterday, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,629 posts, read 10,170,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I get that, but just hate seeing children at risk. Especially in the heart of Jim Crow regions.
They were already at risk. Do you care as much about children being at risk as you do seeing it?
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Old Yesterday, 05:36 AM
 
21,282 posts, read 11,956,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
If you are going to pick a t.v. moment as the turning point for civil rights, I'd pick another moment.

I'm thinking of the march on Selma in 1965 when the civil rights protesters were ridden down by horses, hit by clubs, and generally brutalized on national television. In retrospect, it seems amazing. The people protesting were simply trying to register to vote and blacks were prevented from doing so by the local authorities. The idea was to march to the courthouse and demand that they be allowed to register to vote.

The resulting battle on the Edmund Pettis Bridge in Selma lead to President Johnson proposing the Voting Rights Act of 1965 to Congress. The passage of this law and Johnson's speech in which he said "And we shall overcome" was undoubtedly the highpoint of his presidency. After that, Vietnam came to the forefront and what happened after became a national tragedy.

There were successive impacts. The 1963 firehose scene was, however, the first of those impacts.
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Old Yesterday, 05:37 AM
 
21,282 posts, read 11,956,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
They were already at risk. Do you care as much about children being at risk as you do seeing it?

Bingo.
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Old Yesterday, 05:41 AM
 
21,282 posts, read 11,956,527 times
Reputation: 21739
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
JFK talked a good game but was not forthcoming with implementation. MLK's March on Washington, with his "I have a Dream..." speech was intended to embarrass and hopefully motivate JFK to action.


Most of the major, landmark advances in civil rights issues came during GOP administrations. Was that because the GOP was really more progressive than the Dems on these issues, or was it because they finally relented and provided bipartisan support?

I guess we have a different idea of what "major, landmark advances in civil rights issues" might mean.


Which ones are you saying occurred during GOP administrations?


[quote]Once the outright segregationists of the Dixiecrat wing of that party were expunged (mostly by old age & attrition) progress could be made in legislation. [quote]


That process occurred mostly through the 80s and completed in the 90s. Again, what progress occurred during the 90s?
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Old Yesterday, 07:20 AM
 
9,710 posts, read 9,696,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
JFK talked a good game but was not forthcoming with implementation. MLK's March on Washington, with his "I have a Dream..." speech was intended to embarrass and hopefully motivate JFK to action.


Most of the major, landmark advances in civil rights issues came during GOP administrations. Was that because the GOP was really more progressive than the Dems on these issues, or was it because they finally relented and provided bipartisan support?


Once the outright segregationists of the Dixiecrat wing of that party were expunged (mostly by old age & attrition) progress could be made in legislation. Over the last 50 yrs or so, it looks like the main difference in dealing with these problems by the parties is the "give them a fish" vs "give them a fishing pole" attitude. ..You can't legislate morality.
Your statement about JFK is a generally correct one. Although, his failure to obtain civil rights legislation was not a fault of his. It was his inability to overcome senate rules which allowed a small group of senators to stop passage of legislation. His death though would be used by President Johnson to obtain passage of legislation. Some thought this was "unseemly". I think it was the right thing to have done.

The rest of your post is simply wrong though.

From 1964 through the end of the Johnson Administration in 1969, the democrats had super majorities in both houses of Congress. This was the period that the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Act of 1968 were passed and became law. It was also the time when Thurgood Marshall was confirmed as the first black supreme court justice. Poverty was always a deep problem for African Americans because it has disproportionately impacted them and the Johnson Administration dealt with it through the passage of the War on Poverty legislation. The War on Poverty is controversial, but estimates are that it took at least 40% of impoverished Americans out of poverty. I could go on. No president and no administration dealt with civil rights as dramatically as Johnson Administration did.

I'd be very interested indeed in hearing what specific accomplishments in the field of civil rights occurred under any republican presidential administration.
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Old Yesterday, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Roaring '20s
1,852 posts, read 472,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Your statement about JFK is a generally correct one. Although, his failure to obtain civil rights legislation was not a fault of his. It was his inability to overcome senate rules which allowed a small group of senators to stop passage of legislation. His death though would be used by President Johnson to obtain passage of legislation. Some thought this was "unseemly". I think it was the right thing to have done.

The rest of your post is simply wrong though.

From 1964 through the end of the Johnson Administration in 1969, the democrats had super majorities in both houses of Congress. This was the period that the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Act of 1968 were passed and became law. It was also the time when Thurgood Marshall was confirmed as the first black supreme court justice. Poverty was always a deep problem for African Americans because it has disproportionately impacted them and the Johnson Administration dealt with it through the passage of the War on Poverty legislation. The War on Poverty is controversial, but estimates are that it took at least 40% of impoverished Americans out of poverty. I could go on. No president and no administration dealt with civil rights as dramatically as Johnson Administration did.

I'd be very interested indeed in hearing what specific accomplishments in the field of civil rights occurred under any republican presidential administration.
It should be noted before LBJ nominated Marshall to the United States Supreme Court (in 1967), he had appointed him Solicitor General (in 1965). And it was President Kennedy who appointed Marshall to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in 1961.

Also, Kennedy's appointment of Leon Higginbotham to the FTC represented the first time an African-American had ever been appointed to serve on a federal regulatory commission. Kennedy tried to create the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) with the intent of appointing Robert Weaver to be its first head. Congress wouldn't play ball, but Johnson managed to get HUD approved in 1965 and he appointed Weaver to lead it - the first African-American cabinet-level head.
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Old Yesterday, 10:30 AM
 
12,343 posts, read 17,896,941 times
Reputation: 6354
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Your statement about JFK is a generally correct one. Although, his failure to obtain civil rights legislation was not a fault of his. It was his inability to overcome senate rules which allowed a small group of senators to stop passage of legislation. His death though would be used by President Johnson to obtain passage of legislation. Some thought this was "unseemly". I think it was the right thing to have done.

The rest of your post is simply wrong though.

From 1964 through the end of the Johnson Administration in 1969, the democrats had super majorities in both houses of Congress. This was the period that the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Fair Housing Act of 1968 were passed and became law. It was also the time when Thurgood Marshall was confirmed as the first black supreme court justice. Poverty was always a deep problem for African Americans because it has disproportionately impacted them and the Johnson Administration dealt with it through the passage of the War on Poverty legislation. The War on Poverty is controversial, but estimates are that it took at least 40% of impoverished Americans out of poverty. I could go on. No president and no administration dealt with civil rights as dramatically as Johnson Administration did.

I'd be very interested indeed in hearing what specific accomplishments in the field of civil rights occurred under any republican presidential administration.
Well you are really talking mostly about Eisenhower as the Democrats had a long run before and after him. Unless we throw in Lincoln whose record needs no repeating.

Anyway, Ike enforced the Brown decision first by attempting to reason with (Democrat) Orville Faubus. When that did not work, he sent in the 101st Airborne to protect the black students.

The GOP backed Johnson's Civil Rights legislation. One might say with more enthusiasm than Johnson's own party.

Nixon, taking a page from Ike's strategy, helped lower tensions when it came to Busing. He also instituted Affirmative Action.

LBJ deserves a great deal of credit. He saw a window of opportunity and used his skills to charm, badger, and bully Congress into doing the right thing. But Civil Rights has always been a bipartisan affair. It would not have worked otherwise.
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Old Yesterday, 10:40 AM
 
21,282 posts, read 11,956,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Well you are really talking mostly about Eisenhower as the Democrats had a long run before and after him. Unless we throw in Lincoln whose record needs no repeating.

Anyway, Ike enforced the Brown decision first by attempting to reason with (Democrat) Orville Faubus. When that did not work, he sent in the 101st Airborne to protect the black students.

The GOP backed Johnson's Civil Rights legislation. One might say with more enthusiasm than Johnson's own party.

Nixon, taking a page from Ike's strategy, helped lower tensions when it came to Busing. He also instituted Affirmative Action.

LBJ deserves a great deal of credit. He saw a window of opportunity and used his skills to charm, badger, and bully Congress into doing the right thing. But Civil Rights has always been a bipartisan affair. It would not have worked otherwise.

The assertion was, however:


Quote:
Most of the major, landmark advances in civil rights issues came during GOP administrations.

That assertion is not true.
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Old Yesterday, 11:24 AM
 
12,343 posts, read 17,896,941 times
Reputation: 6354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The assertion was, however:





That assertion is not true.
The Brown decision came during the Eisenhower administration. It just came from the Supreme Court rather than Congress. Eisenhower enforced it with armed soldiers

LBJ would have had great difficulty passing the Civil Rights Act were it not for GOP support. Those smirking bubbas like Orville Faubus and George Wallace were Democrats. The southern Democrats were the biggest impediment to Civil Rights.

And Affirmative Action is a HUGE boon to Civil Rights, depending on your perspective. That came to fruition under Nixon.

So no, the assertion is quite true.

Don't get me wrong. LBJ deserves a huge amount of credit. And he was thanked by having numerous urban riots on his watch.
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