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Old 01-20-2020, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
We should have been taking in more Jewish refugees from the moment their oppression under Hitler became apparent. We should have been bombing the infrastructure around the camps in order to stop the transport of prisoners. Pretty apparent. No reason to bomb the actual camps themselves and kill the innocents being tortured and murdered there.
THat is our (the USA's) big failing IMO. Looking back at history, that's what we have to be ashamed of, not taking in more refugees.

Regarding bombing the camps or rail lines to the camps? It's extremely questionable what good it would do for the victims of the camps. Then there's the military perspective, was it a wise use of resources in fighting a war and defeating the Nazi's? Probably not.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:21 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Default Feet dry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I wonder of fighter escort range would be a factor as well. From England to Poland has to be about 2,000 mile round trip. B17s could do it but what about the fighters of that day? P38's maybe but how long would they be able to stay active in dogfights without having to break off. If that's the case it wouldn't have been practical until we liberated France or the low countries, maybe from liberated portions of Italy.

Allies engaged in un-escorted bombing missions of course, but would always be costly.
P-38s didn't do well in ETO. See https://www.historynet.com/p-38-flunked-europe.htm for a comprehensive discussion of the issues.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:31 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Default A very hyper bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
I guess it would take some war gaming to determine if some B-29 squadrons would have been needed to reach the targets in Poland. Would B-24s have to shuttle to the Soviet Union. And would the Soviets be happy about assets being utilized on a humanitarian and not a war fighting mission?
There was some thought on basing B-29s in Africa (Egypt?) - because of the large amount of space required for takeoff & landing for B-29s (plus the B-29s tended to engine fires - they were supercharged & very cutting edge; one reason there was typically a firefighter with fire extinguisher @ the ready, for every engine startup.)
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Russia
983 posts, read 211,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That would lead me to seriously question his work.

Neither Israel nor the Mossad had any interest in JFK and the CIA was in no way involved, although a handful of CIA employees acting on their own behalf without any authorization were involved.
I agree with you.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:35 PM
 
24,776 posts, read 10,136,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
We should have been taking in more Jewish refugees from the moment their oppression under Hitler became apparent. We should have been bombing the infrastructure around the camps in order to stop the transport of prisoners. Pretty apparent. No reason to bomb the actual camps themselves and kill the innocents being tortured and murdered there.
The world knew early, and you are correct.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:39 PM
 
19,699 posts, read 16,198,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor View Post
The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Map with the number of victims of the Holocaust/war by country

The first figure is the number of the Jewish population for a particular year(usually the date of the census)
The second figure is the number of Jewish residents killed in the country at the end of world war II


source: bpd.de.

If we exclude Jewish citizens of the USSR, we will get about 4.5 million. The Figure is large, I do not argue,but you will agree that in comparison with the 15 million killed Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians and other citizens of the USSR looks modest. Why don't they talk about these 15 million? Or are they second-class people?

When it comes specifically to Americans, there are few reasons for that.
Reason number one (I would think) is that making up unverifiable stories about "20 millions Russians killed by Stalin" sound much better for propaganda purpose than "15 million Russians killed by Germans" (which is verifiable.)
Another reason - they simply don't believe in the existence of the "General Plan Ost," and DELIBERATE annihilation of civilian population, preferring to think that this destruction was just the "casualties of war" like casualties of ANY war. ( Which we both know is not true.)
The third reason of course, is that people are simply not even aware of these losses all together.

This is just an example of it - "Why were WWII Soviet casualties extremely high?"

And yet another reason ( in my opinion,) is that Russians simply don't come across as victims in the same manner as Jews do, amassing the biggest and strongest army in Europe ( or the world) by the end end of the war.
But I will address this point separately, talking specifically about the Holocaust.

See the major difference between the Jews and Russians ( Belorussians/Ukrainians) is that unlike the Jews, the latter ones had THEIR OWN LAND, where they ultimately could organize the the Army, the resistance and thus could ultimately prevail.
But Jews didn't have any of it - they were defenseless, the "easy pickings," and that's why, when targeted, they became the ultimate victims of fascism and perished in great numbers.
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Old 01-21-2020, 07:22 AM
 
14,069 posts, read 19,711,624 times
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To disrupt transport lines to a camp, there was no need to send expensive bombers and more expensive pilots. Along with fighters cover, to extent possible.
Armia Krayova, Polish resistance, was hand fed by Brits. All that was needed, was to send few shipments of TNT or C4, or whatever else they had then, and few men, to blow roads and rails/bridges. With bridges requiring more time for restoration. Was common partisan practice.
If someone believes that this would have changed anything, with Germans being engineering geniuses of that time, don't be naive. Militaries engineering troops specialty was to create roads out of nothing in middle of nowhere.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Elysium
8,801 posts, read 4,894,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
To disrupt transport lines to a camp, there was no need to send expensive bombers and more expensive pilots. Along with fighters cover, to extent possible.
Armia Krayova, Polish resistance, was hand fed by Brits. All that was needed, was to send few shipments of TNT or C4, or whatever else they had then, and few men, to blow roads and rails/bridges. With bridges requiring more time for restoration. Was common partisan practice.
If someone believes that this would have changed anything, with Germans being engineering geniuses of that time, don't be naive. Militaries engineering troops specialty was to create roads out of nothing in middle of nowhere.
That presuppose that the resistance would take direct orders from the British instead of working on their own national goals. The few agents and resistance groups were probably harder to find than replacement aircrews who didn't have the choice of chosing their own targets
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:34 AM
 
10,276 posts, read 8,409,256 times
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Of course we should have done more.

But actually the Holocaust could have easily been avoided. The U.S. blocked Jewish refugees from entering despite dramatic appeals from a number of U.S. Reps and Jewish organizations. The U.S. was still stuck in its interwar nativist phase (recently revived, unfortunately).

It's not like the Holocaust was a surprise to anyone. There were alarm bells going off a decade earlier. People know what was happening, but they didn't care. Many Americans were openly hostile to swarthy immigrants who spoke funny languages, had weird customs, and ate strange food. And they weren't even Christian! The nativists in Congress blocked immigration reform and emergency refugee influx. Many of the arguments used against refugees and immigrants are the exact same we hear today.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
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Open US borders would not have easily avoided the Holocaust, though it would have lessened the number of overall victims.
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