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Old 01-24-2020, 10:45 AM
 
11,699 posts, read 16,767,340 times
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Before Wermacht fail in 1941 (yes, in 1941, when Blitzkrieg failed. From that on, it was just matter of time), Germany and its canzler were FRIENDS of the West.

Hence, West didn't really care, what books were written. As far as they didn't call for attacking West and called for attacking Ost and erasing certain peoples.
Then, all was good and dandy.


PS. Don't believe me? Go and read Western papers and magazines from those times. Not, what is written NOW about those times. I believe, Hitler was a man of the year in one of them. Stop reading NOW propaganda. Read THEN propaganda.
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Old 01-24-2020, 12:17 PM
 
4,204 posts, read 1,769,595 times
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Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am reading a great book on the rise and fall of the Nazis. Mein Kampf was released in 1925 and did shoddy business in the immediate following years(7k, 9k copies sold only in some years), then around 1933 it started selling in the millions.

My question is- Did nobody read and realize this lunatic's ambitions which he so clearly laid out in the book? His desire for more space(Lebensraum), unified Germany which could only be achieved by annexation of the neighbors, the jew problem- all of it is written there pretty much step by step.

How come nobody, even after 1940 or so, after seeing Hitler live upto his words and march over his neighbors, put two and two together and plan out a strategy to destroy this lunatic?
He mentions few other things which are relevant even today.

1) Bankers/International businessmen have no national loyalty.
2) How they would be create a country as a safe haven for them to escape persecution if they commit financial misdeeds.
3) How they successfully could appoint and buy people in Media, Government and Finance.
4) More importantly he says, destroy nationalism, traditiion and culture trough immigration, socialism and propaganda. ( Does it ring a bell about the Social Justice Party <<no Politics>>)


Every American should read it because point 4 is applicable to America of today.

Last edited by mensaguy; 01-25-2020 at 06:57 AM.. Reason: Cut political reference.
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:44 PM
 
944 posts, read 1,509,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post


I don't understand your point. None of these people have particularly famous books, and none of these people have particularly controversial, scandalous or unpopular worldviews.

And more important Mein Kampf (My Struggle) is essentially a primer on Hitler's specific plans. I don't know any prominent person, in modern history, with an analogous book. Most politician books are just moneymaking/publicity vehicles, not world-altering creeds.

And the Islam comment is even weirder. Bizarre.

Not sure how the Islam comment is weird or bizarre, besides you declaring it so.

If you study the time period, Hitler did not have scandalous or unpopular worldviews for his point in time.

You are putting a lot of constraints on why you think people don't read political books today, but should have done so in the 1930's. I can see why you don't understand the point. It's easy after WW2 to pick out things from Mein Kampf that match things he did and say why didn't anybody do anything. We never say why didn't anyone read the books by Benito Mussolini and do something about him. People don't read in general and are not picking apart political books looking for clues. They didn't do it in the 1930's and we still don't do it nowadays.

Mein Kampf contains nothing new that wasn't being repeated ad nauseam during the late 19th/early 20th century. Colonizing/conquering new lands and subjugating the native population was not something new for the time and was definitely not something only Germany wanted to partake in. Eugenics was largely pushed by the British, with it's main proponent being Francis Galton, who was knighted by the King of England in 1909 for his work.

Read a little more about the time period, how people thought back then, about social movements taking place, and the atmosphere Hitler and his generation grew up in. Then read about the details of events in European history from 1933 to 1945 and it might help you understand my point.


"Hitler began to distance himself from the book after becoming chancellor of Germany in 1933. He dismissed it as "fantasies behind bars" that were little more than a series of articles for the Völkischer Beobachter, and later told Hans Frank that "If I had had any idea in 1924 that I would have become Reich chancellor, I never would have written the book."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:40 PM
 
944 posts, read 1,509,716 times
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Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
Both Putin or Kim Jung aren't considered land grubbing power hungry dictators, and even if they were I would assume geography would be a major factor. America is safe by a long shot just from the Oceans which Europe wasn't. I kinda agree about the Islamic sentiment, but again- its just too much of a shot to even loose sleep over something that has been an ongoing discussion since antiquity. Hitler wrote his book, devised the plans and executed it- all within 15 years.

My main point was this- how today, there are so many think tanks, secret spies and organizations trying to figure out the next move of an opponent, I read somewhere that the roots of so much secret intelligent organzations began in WW2 and yet, here it was all laid out in writing for the world to read.

Maybe in 1928 or 1936 nobody would have thought of Hitler going about things but surely even by the time 1939 battles commenced they'd have an idea- Okay, this is what he wants, he is passionate about it, and this will be step #2. Lets get on it and kick his ass.

History is very fascinating and my firm belief is that Churchill, Roosevelt, Chamberlain etc etc probably rued not analyzing that book. This surely must have been mentioned later.

Anyway, thank you for your comments TXRunner
I really don't think we should be reading anything into Islamic beliefs regarding politics or the concept of jihad. It's something I've been exposed to through university level courses in Islamic studies. That was the point I was making though. I don't think people were reading anything much into Mein Kampf either, just like the masses today are not devouring books written by politicians, scandalous or not. Islam espouses beliefs regarding government and politics, so I find nothing weird or bizarre about it. If you took all of those seriously, there would be nothing but endless wars.

Mein Kampf is a rehash of trite 19th century world philosophy. It's extremely difficult to make it through the whole book. I've read quite a bit about WW2 and thought maybe reading Mein Kampf would give me some insight into Hitler's thinking. I've read bits and pieces of chapters, but I can't see how most people would make it through the whole book, I certainly haven't. Those millions of copies were something to put on a coffee table in Germany. I can't imagine many people reading the thing or taking any of the ramblings seriously. The belief that the white "race" was superior or the idea of colonialism were not scandalous at the time. The thing that was shocking and scandalous was mass genocide, which was never laid out in Mein Kampf or most of Hitler's speeches in general. The development of the concentration camps that eventually lead to mass genocide was not as clear cut as most people suppose.

In 1939 nobody was ready to fully engage with the German military. Most countries are not willing to sacrifice millions of their own citizens at the drop of hat, even if it means allowing a dictator to swallow a few minor countries. Let's get on with it and kick his ass entailed the loss of millions, which was not an easy decision for countries affected by the Great Depression. Assassination would have been much easier and many people tried that too.

The other thing to consider is that much of the fighting and loss of life was on the Eastern Front. Imagine the Allies jumping into the fight without the aid of Russia. 80% of all Germany military casualties were on the eastern front. Russia lost about 20-30,000,000 people, while the U.S. lost about 420,000. I think the U.S. likes to overestimate its role in WW2.

Germany took Paris in June 1940, yet the U.S. did not enter the war until December 1941, months after Russia had already joined the Allied forces. The first major operations against Germany by the U.S. did not take place until nearly a year later, over 3 years since the start of WW2. By then, Russia had been fighting Germany well over a year. You didn't need Mein Kampf, Germany was swallowing countries up whole for the world to see and the U.S. and Russia still did not join the fight to stop them. Most of this hesitation had nothing to do with Roosevelt, but with the American public.

France and Britain declared war immediately after Germany attacked Poland, but were somewhat powerless to stop them militarily at the time, especially since this was a joint venture between Russia and Germany.

There are a lot of moving parts in WW2 that most people can't begin to understand and I'm definitely no expert, but I know it's a lot more complex than just asking why didn't anyone stop him. Even Nazi Germany was not a one man show, there were levels of complexity and evilness that lead to WW2 being what it was.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:54 PM
 
944 posts, read 1,509,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Before Wermacht fail in 1941 (yes, in 1941, when Blitzkrieg failed. From that on, it was just matter of time), Germany and its canzler were FRIENDS of the West.

Hence, West didn't really care, what books were written. As far as they didn't call for attacking West and called for attacking Ost and erasing certain peoples.
Then, all was good and dandy.


PS. Don't believe me? Go and read Western papers and magazines from those times. Not, what is written NOW about those times. I believe, Hitler was a man of the year in one of them. Stop reading NOW propaganda. Read THEN propaganda.
Time magazine voted him as man of the year, but I don't think this was necessarily a good thing. It just means he was essentially the biggest thing going on at the time, whether for good or evil.

I wouldn't really call Nazi Germany and the west friends, but there were a lot of sympathizers and people in the U.S., Britain, and France who thought Hitler was going to lead to positive changes for Germany. Hitler saw Britain, the U.S., and Germany as natural allies, especially against communism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
He mentions few other things which are relevant even today.

4) More importantly he says, destroy nationalism, traditiion and culture trough immigration, socialism and propaganda. ( Does it ring a bell about the Social Justice Party <<no Politics>>)


Every American should read it because point 4 is applicable to America of today.
I'm not sure about that point #4 there. You might want to fact-check that. Hitler was an extreme German nationalist.

Last edited by mensaguy; 01-25-2020 at 06:58 AM.. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:59 PM
 
4,204 posts, read 1,769,595 times
Reputation: 2784
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
Time magazine voted him as man of the year, but I don't think this was necessarily a good thing. It just means he was essentially the biggest thing going on at the time, whether for good or evil.

I wouldn't really call Nazi Germany and the west friends, but there were a lot of sympathizers and people in the U.S., Britain, and France who thought Hitler was going to lead to positive changes for Germany. Hitler saw Britain, the U.S., and Germany as natural allies, especially against communism.



I'm not sure about that point #4 there. You might want to fact-check that. Hitler was an extreme German nationalist.
sorry, i meant he said the Bankers/Globalists wanted to do that in every country so their loan business can thrive.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Haiku
6,471 posts, read 3,225,157 times
Reputation: 9209
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
How come nobody, even after 1940 or so, after seeing Hitler live upto his words and march over his neighbors, put two and two together and plan out a strategy to destroy this lunatic?
Nobody took him seriously. They thought that he was a lunatic that would never rise to anything more than a back-bench rabble rouser. This is why demagogues with a lot of hatred are so dangerous and must always be taken seriously. It is also a cautionary tale about democracy - it does not prevent people like Hitler from coming to power.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
1,260 posts, read 467,204 times
Reputation: 3000
The book is dreadful. Its ironic that they more or less ban it in Germany even though its more likely to put people to sleep than turn them into ardent Hitlerites.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,392 posts, read 7,470,001 times
Reputation: 7107
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
He mentions few other things which are relevant even today.

1) Bankers/International businessmen have no national loyalty.
2) How they would be create a country as a safe haven for them to escape persecution if they commit financial misdeeds.
3) How they successfully could appoint and buy people in Media, Government and Finance.
4) More importantly he says, destroy nationalism, traditiion and culture trough immigration, socialism and propaganda. ( Does it ring a bell about the Social Justice Party <<no Politics>>)


Every American should read it because point 4 is applicable to America of today.
I read "DREAMS FROM MY FATHER" before the election of 2008.
I wonder how many books were actually sold?
I wonder the same about the books by Hillary that were "best seller"s.
What better way is there to fund a candidate for a public office than purchasing thousands of their books and dumping them in a warehouse somewhere? Maybe Mein Kampf was written/bought for similar reasons?

Last edited by mensaguy; 01-25-2020 at 06:59 AM.. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:58 PM
 
4,204 posts, read 1,769,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
I read "DREAMS FROM MY FATHER" before the election of 2008.
I wonder how many books were actually sold?
I wonder the same about the books by Hillary that were "best seller"s.
What better way is there to fund a candidate for a public office than purchasing thousands of their books and dumping them in a warehouse somewhere? Maybe Mein Kampf was written/bought for similar reasons?
It's a good point. Moderator cut: Sorry, but we don't discuss the current American administration in the History forum.

Add to it the amatuer rants about the common Jew ( muslims, illegals in case of <<bleep>>), it will be a great tool to fulfill his objectives. Many working class people wouldnt take it seriously , but germany wS reelung from ww1 aftermath so even they would have fallen for his trap due to social and economic conditions.

Last edited by mensaguy; 01-25-2020 at 07:00 AM.. Reason: Removing reference to politician.
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