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Old 01-25-2020, 07:05 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
12,038 posts, read 11,476,289 times
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I had to do too much post editing and deleting because people either didn't read the forum rules, or chose to ignore them. Now, everybody go read the Rules thread at the top of the forum. It includes this rule:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
No Politics or Current Events. We have forums for those topics, and they are not History.

Defining when Politics becomes History: Posts about the current Administration and the immediate past administration of the US federal government are off limits. Example: For the purposes of this forum, January 20, 2017, was the date that the George W. Bush administration entered the realm of History. January 20, 2009, was when the Clinton administration became History.

We have to draw as line somewhere so past administrations can be discussed. This has been working reasonably well for several years in an informal way, so all we are doing is putting current practice into writing.

If you think you need to post something about current politicians in the History forum, be prepared to sit on the sidelines until your posting suspension expired.
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:01 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,722,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Nobody took him seriously. They thought that he was a lunatic that would never rise to anything more than a back-bench rabble rouser. This is why demagogues with a lot of hatred are so dangerous and must always be taken seriously. It is also a cautionary tale about democracy - it does not prevent people like Hitler from coming to power.
I pretty much agree with this. I would like to encourage everyone who is interested in why Germany turned to the nazis and why Italy turned to Mussolini to go to Youtube and find an interesting documentary done by the travel guru "Rick Steves". Its about fascism and how it managed to become popular in some regions of Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1IVW6uqM0

Some people worry about demagogic politicians imposing some form of fascism in America. I don't spend much time worrying about it. There were some very distinct problems in Europe that lead to the rise of nazism and fascism. They were things like:

1. Frustration that the outcome of World War I did not lead to more prosperity and gains for their countries.

2. Very little history or experience with democracy or representative government.

3. The lack of a media or press that could provide the public with reasonably accurate information.

4. Lack of an independent judiciary that was not afraid to decide cases against the government.

5. Severe economic distress as a result of a worldwide depression.

6. A willingness to listen to politicians who talked of simple solutions to very complex problems.

However, one thing should always stay with us. Hitler didn't seize power. He was a duly elected politician. Maybe that should make the rest of us always look over our shoulder.
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Old 01-25-2020, 09:33 AM
 
11,720 posts, read 16,774,862 times
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Please, do NOT tell that he was not taken seriously. This is naive at the best.


Hitler appeared on the cover of TIME on multiple occasions — most famously perhaps on Jan. 2, 1939, when he was named Man of the Year. That choice abided by the dictum of TIME founder Henry Luce, who decreed that the Man of the Year — now Person of the Year — was not an honor but instead should be a distinction applied to the newsmaker who most influenced world events for better or worse.
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Old 01-25-2020, 11:01 AM
 
4,204 posts, read 1,771,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
It's a good point. Moderator cut: Sorry, but we don't discuss the current American administration in the History forum.

Add to it the amatuer rants about the common Jew ( muslims, illegals in case of <<bleep>>), it will be a great tool to fulfill his objectives. Many working class people wouldnt take it seriously , but germany wS reelung from ww1 aftermath so even they would have fallen for his trap due to social and economic conditions.

One important takeaway from that book would be how propaganda could be used. It says, keep pushing the same message to the weakest of the masses in a subjet that interests them or arouses them. He basically said germany was great but it was subjugated by orher forces. So all he wanted was to make germany great again and back to its glorious past.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:52 PM
 
1,161 posts, read 327,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
You are putting a lot of constraints on why you think people don't read political books today, but should have done so in the 1930's. I can see why you don't understand the point. It's easy after WW2 to pick out things from Mein Kampf that match things he did and say why didn't anybody do anything. We never say why didn't anyone read the books by Benito Mussolini and do something about him. People don't read in general and are not picking apart political books looking for clues. They didn't do it in the 1930's and we still don't do it nowadays.
I agree with most of your assertions but I think you're looking at the reading argument the wrong way. Sure, millions of average American citizens don't read the books by the politicians as you describe, just like millions of average Americans and Europeans didn't read Mein Kampf. But, those aren't the sort of people who would read those books, and they aren't the sort of people who would have made a difference in 1939. The sort of people who do read those books, then and now, are the sort of people who maybe could have made a difference: poli-sci majors, political interns, campaign volunteers, and political staffers. Those are the sorts of people who have the ear of politicians that don't actually have time to read those books themselves.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:16 PM
 
10,462 posts, read 3,018,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am reading a great book on the rise and fall of the Nazis. Mein Kampf was released in 1925 and did shoddy business in the immediate following years(7k, 9k copies sold only in some years), then around 1933 it started selling in the millions.

My question is- Did nobody read and realize this lunatic's ambitions which he so clearly laid out in the book? His desire for more space(Lebensraum), unified Germany which could only be achieved by annexation of the neighbors, the jew problem- all of it is written there pretty much step by step.
Did you read it yourself? I ask because that's not how I've heard it described. Rambling and disorganized would be more like it, and the occasional policy blueprint would not be very radical by those days' standards when the UK and the USSR had imperial ambitions and accomplishment far beyond Hitler's relatively modest imagination.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:46 PM
 
10,462 posts, read 3,018,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post


I don't understand your point. None of these people have particularly famous books, and none of these people have particularly controversial, scandalous or unpopular worldviews.

And more important Mein Kampf (My Struggle) is essentially a primer on Hitler's specific plans. I don't know any prominent person, in modern history, with an analogous book.
Be serious. Mein Kampf is famous only because of things that happened after it was written.

Obama wrote a book called Dreams from My Father. Did you read it? Did you even know about it? Why would you expect people back then to know about Hitler's book? Why would they think it was "essentially a primer on Hitler's specific plans"? Why do you think that? Is that even true? And why would you expect them to slog through it? And, since you must have read it by now, what were the specific plans and what is so extraordinary about them? How easy were they to find? How long did it take you?
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:08 PM
 
7,515 posts, read 7,039,285 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am reading a great book on the rise and fall of the Nazis. Mein Kampf was released in 1925 and did shoddy business in the immediate following years(7k, 9k copies sold only in some years), then around 1933 it started selling in the millions.

My question is- Did nobody read and realize this lunatic's ambitions which he so clearly laid out in the book? His desire for more space(Lebensraum), unified Germany which could only be achieved by annexation of the neighbors, the jew problem- all of it is written there pretty much step by step.

How come nobody, even after 1940 or so, after seeing Hitler live upto his words and march over his neighbors, put two and two together and plan out a strategy to destroy this lunatic?
Having more space? Isnt that what the USA with Manifest Destination, GB, and other colonial powers were doing too? Russia, centuries before Hitler, started conquering Siberia.

Well obviously Hitler a threat to other European powers who's land he wanted. But I doubt any of them will be scared. Warfare was the name of the game back then. They all probably just dismissed him as another upstart they get to crush for fun.
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:28 PM
 
591 posts, read 102,384 times
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If I remember correctly. Stalin was an avid reader of Mein Kempf.
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Old 01-25-2020, 09:40 PM
 
10,462 posts, read 3,018,756 times
Reputation: 6692
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am reading a great book on the rise and fall of the Nazis. Mein Kampf was released in 1925 and did shoddy business in the immediate following years(7k, 9k copies sold only in some years), then around 1933 it started selling in the millions.
It was written in German. About 100 million people could read German in 1925, which is a lot, but only about 3% of the world's population. If it sold poorly, as you say, it may not have been translated into other languages for quite some time. Do you know?
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