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Old 01-26-2020, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Somewhere on this 3rd rock from the sun
544 posts, read 758,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9 View Post
It was written in German. About 100 million people could read German in 1925, which is a lot, but only about 3% of the world's population. If it sold poorly, as you say, it may not have been translated into other languages for quite some time. Do you know?
It only sold poorly in the mid 20s. By the early 30s it was selling in the milions. I'd think that for a book written by a statesman who was already in power, and with some rather controversial opinions, it would have caught the eye of someone in England, France or America.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:26 AM
Status: "(MASA) Make America Smart Again" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,507 posts, read 2,241,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am reading a great book on the rise and fall of the Nazis. Mein Kampf was released in 1925 and did shoddy business in the immediate following years(7k, 9k copies sold only in some years), then around 1933 it started selling in the millions.

My question is- Did nobody read and realize this lunatic's ambitions which he so clearly laid out in the book? His desire for more space(Lebensraum), unified Germany which could only be achieved by annexation of the neighbors, the jew problem- all of it is written there pretty much step by step.

How come nobody, even after 1940 or so, after seeing Hitler live upto his words and march over his neighbors, put two and two together and plan out a strategy to destroy this lunatic?
Fascism is something to be feared at a personal level. Last week I spoke to a woman in Costco whose father was beaten savagely by Italy's brown shirts for getting the Fascist salute wrong as a child. While the venue was different in Germany, Fascism in Germany was just as brutal, if not more so.

Find and watch "The Mortal Storm". It's an older film with James Stewart, Robert Young, Frank Morgan (The Wizard of Oz), Margaret Sullivan, and Ward Bond among others. The film is about the take over by the Nazis and its effect. Respected professors were at first ostracized and later worse.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD
71 posts, read 9,688 times
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On a lighter note:


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Old 01-26-2020, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Germany
6,544 posts, read 1,254,715 times
Reputation: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am reading a great book on the rise and fall of the Nazis. Mein Kampf was released in 1925 and did shoddy business in the immediate following years(7k, 9k copies sold only in some years), then around 1933 it started selling in the millions.

My question is- Did nobody read and realize this lunatic's ambitions which he so clearly laid out in the book? His desire for more space(Lebensraum), unified Germany which could only be achieved by annexation of the neighbors, the jew problem- all of it is written there pretty much step by step.
Germany was a proud power that had been defeated in World War I, and then suffered a depression. Mein Kampf offered a solution by creating an us and them ideology. Although many Germans did not accept this solution, enough did to make Hitler a power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
How come nobody, even after 1940 or so, after seeing Hitler live upto his words and march over his neighbors, put two and two together and plan out a strategy to destroy this lunatic?
By the late 1930's, Hitler used terror tactics against opponents, so people in Germany who were not Nazis were less likely to react. Outside Germany, it was politics that stopped other countries (although Russia planned to eventually attack Germany despite the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact).
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Old 01-26-2020, 06:25 PM
 
18,778 posts, read 5,105,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am reading a great book on the rise and fall of the Nazis. Mein Kampf was released in 1925 and did shoddy business in the immediate following years(7k, 9k copies sold only in some years), then around 1933 it started selling in the millions.

My question is- Did nobody read and realize this lunatic's ambitions which he so clearly laid out in the book? His desire for more space(Lebensraum), unified Germany which could only be achieved by annexation of the neighbors, the jew problem- all of it is written there pretty much step by step.

How come nobody, even after 1940 or so, after seeing Hitler live upto his words and march over his neighbors, put two and two together and plan out a strategy to destroy this lunatic?
Sorry if it is already mentioned, but there were a number of US Journalists and others who sounded the alarm....I keep running across books about them (but admit I haven't read them)....let me find it....

Ah -= it was future Senator Cranston (CA).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0769ZD7GQ/

"In 1939, a 24-year old American journalist, recently returned to New York City from Europe, discovers that Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf—as published in the United States—is sanitized. Using Hitler’s own words from the original Nazi manifesto, he translates and writes an annotated condensed edition to expose the full measure of Hitler’s evil ideology, chilling anti-Semitism, and plans for world domination. The American publisher of Mein Kampf sues for copyright infringement.

This short historical non-fiction book is about the people and events that shaped the young journalist’s life. It recounts his determined pursuit of the truth to alert Americans and the world to the danger six months before Hitler’s war machine invades Poland and begins the march toward WWII. "

I suspect many others actually read Hitlers Book but considered him a fool who would "moderate" once he took power.

Remember that German Americans had a BIG presence here (Bunds, etc.) and they were pro-Hitler. Maybe that's why the book was sanitized?

There has always been a certain Authoritarian streak...as well as a know-nothing streak....as well as an isolationist streak....in America. These things combine to the point where we rarely act. We react.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Roaring '20s
1,903 posts, read 497,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Good post.

The only problem is the bold. I would never defend Hitler, so please do not misunderstand. But he attacked the UK only after the UK and France declared war on Germany after she invaded Poland. Otherwise he would probably would have alternated between ignoring them or trying to cultivate them as a any ally of sorts. He really just wanted them out of the way.
I mostly agree. Hitler was floored when the UK and France declared war. He reputedly turned to Ribbentrop -- who considered himself an expert on Britain, and had assured his Fuhrer that there was no chance they'd go to war over Poland -- and said "Now what?" [or whatever the German equivalent is]

But France is different. Hitler saw France as a mortal enemy of Germany that had to be subdued sooner or later. He was merely caught off-guard that they moved (officially, if not much militarily) before he could conclude his Polish conquest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
"In 1939, a 24-year old American journalist, recently returned to New York City from Europe, discovers that Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf—as published in the United States—is sanitized. Using Hitler’s own words from the original Nazi manifesto, he translates and writes an annotated condensed edition to expose the full measure of Hitler’s evil ideology, chilling anti-Semitism, and plans for world domination. The American publisher of Mein Kampf sues for copyright infringement.
1939? By 1939, no one needed Mein Kampf to tell them of Hitler's anti-Semitism. Persecution of Jews had been official Nazi policy since 1933 - Jews were banned by law from government jobs that year. The Nuremberg Laws were passed beginning in 1935. Kristallnacht was in 1938. By 1939, over half of German Jews had emigrated, precisely because the anti-Semitism had been glaringly obvious for years.

Also, the Night of Long Knives occurred in 1934. Political opponents (communists, socialists), gays, and others were being confined to concentration camps as early as 1933. So no one in 1939 needed Mein Kampf to tip them off to the evil basis of Nazi ideology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
There has always been a certain Authoritarian streak...as well as a know-nothing streak....as well as an isolationist streak....in America. These things combine to the point where we rarely act. We react.
What sort of 'action' was the United States supposed to take in 1939? The Hitlerian cat was rather out of the bag at that point, no?

For that matter, what was the U.S. supposed to do in 1933, when Hitler became Chancellor, the Enabling Act was passed, and Hindenburg died? Or in the intervening years? Even had the U.S. not been mired in depression and determined to avoid European entanglements, how could it confront Germany? The United States Army was tiny. How could force possibly be projected against Germany? As it was beginning in 1941, the U.S. was entirely dependent upon Britain serving as a huge and stationary aircraft carrier from which to launch operations. The UK was uninterested in war before September 1939. And how can anyone imagine FDR convincing the American people in, say, 1937 that "Hey, everyone! I know this depression thing sucks and you're just trying to survive, but we're going to war because there's this guy in Germany who is going to suck us into a world war in a few years if we don't stop him!"? Say hello to President Lindbergh in 1940.

Again, I have to ask: how was Hitler any more foreseeable as a existential threat than, say, Mussolini or Stalin or Franco? He wasn't. Only hindsight tells us so. Sure, Churchill was sounding the alarm. But then, Winston had a long career and made a whole lot of blunders and bad calls along the way. How were contemporaries to know that this time he was getting in right?
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Old 01-26-2020, 09:05 PM
 
10,457 posts, read 3,018,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
It only sold poorly in the mid 20s. By the early 30s it was selling in the milions. I'd think that for a book written by a statesman who was already in power, and with some rather controversial opinions, it would have caught the eye of someone in England, France or America.
But by then it was too late to keep Hitler from gaining power.
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Old Yesterday, 03:24 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
19,321 posts, read 24,214,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Nobody took him seriously. They thought that he was a lunatic that would never rise to anything more than a back-bench rabble rouser. This is why demagogues with a lot of hatred are so dangerous and must always be taken seriously. It is also a cautionary tale about democracy - it does not prevent people like Hitler from coming to power.
THIS^^^.

Hitler's anti-Semitic ravings in "Mein Kampf" were just that, anti-Semitic ravings. They were, unfortunately, common sentiments across Europe. Hitler did not write of The Final Solution, the liquidation of the Jews of Europe. That was not even conceived of until 1941.

I think those who read it, basically agreed with it.
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Old Yesterday, 06:36 AM
 
12,364 posts, read 17,922,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I pretty much agree with this. I would like to encourage everyone who is interested in why Germany turned to the nazis and why Italy turned to Mussolini to go to Youtube and find an interesting documentary done by the travel guru "Rick Steves". Its about fascism and how it managed to become popular in some regions of Europe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1IVW6uqM0

Some people worry about demagogic politicians imposing some form of fascism in America. I don't spend much time worrying about it. There were some very distinct problems in Europe that lead to the rise of nazism and fascism. They were things like:

1. Frustration that the outcome of World War I did not lead to more prosperity and gains for their countries.

2. Very little history or experience with democracy or representative government.

3. The lack of a media or press that could provide the public with reasonably accurate information.

4. Lack of an independent judiciary that was not afraid to decide cases against the government.

5. Severe economic distress as a result of a worldwide depression.

6. A willingness to listen to politicians who talked of simple solutions to very complex problems.

However, one thing should always stay with us. Hitler didn't seize power. He was a duly elected politician. Maybe that should make the rest of us always look over our shoulder.
Not quite.

Hitler was indeed elected and then appointed Chancellor. But the Nazi Party was a minority party in a minority coalition. He then used the Reichstag Fire and then outright violence to gradually seize complete control.

I agree we should always look over our shoulders (what some college students say about our Constitution is terrifying), but Weimar Germany was a mess to begin with.
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Old Yesterday, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
1,260 posts, read 468,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Not quite.

Hitler was indeed elected and then appointed Chancellor. But the Nazi Party was a minority party in a minority coalition. He then used the Reichstag Fire and then outright violence to gradually seize complete control.

I agree we should always look over our shoulders (what some college students say about our Constitution is terrifying), but Weimar Germany was a mess to begin with.

In that electoral system it would have been near impossible to get an outright majority for what it's worth. NSDAP percentages in 1932 topped those achieved by any other party in Weimar.



But yeah it's often forgotten that Weimar was basically broken and Hitler was running against folks that had either proven ineffective or were seen as at least as dangerous (communists). His rise to power was at least as much about the failings of others as it was about his policies or their popularity in Germany.
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