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Old 02-21-2020, 08:42 PM
 
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This is from a review of a new book by Andrew Bacevich. What do you think about the view?


How Victory in the Cold War Led to Tragedy in the Years After
By Noah Millman

The Age of Illusions: How America Squandered Its Cold War Victory
By Andrew J. Bacevich

First, capitalism’s victory over Communism meant that the more unbounded capital was, through freer trade and more open capital markets, the better off Americans — and the world — would be. Second, as America’s military superiority was now overwhelming, we had the right, the ability and the obligation to dictate the terms of global peace, and to enforce that peace by making war. Finally, as freedom had proved itself superior to tyranny, Americans no longer had any reason to accept limits on their autonomy, or any reason to worry that other nations might take a different view of freedom than we did.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/b...sultPosition=1
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Old 02-22-2020, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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There's a good review in The Guardian.

However I think it's worse noting that the Russians have squandred their chance of becoming an economic success and instead concetrated on the politics of the world stage and Putin. The subsequent sanctions against Russia have had a significant impact.

Europe did try to utilise a peace dividend, following the Cold War, however NATO under US leadership sought expansion and new roles, whilst America itself no longer confronted by a common enemy and purpose in relation to the Cold War, has become ever more politically divided.

The Age of Illusions review: anti-anti-Trump but for … what, exactly? - The Guardian


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Old 02-22-2020, 08:46 AM
 
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There is pretty convincing and conclusive evidence that the last part of the 20th century and up to now are the most peaceful and prosperous period in the history of mankind. So I would say a definite no, I do not agree.
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Old 02-22-2020, 10:56 PM
 
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It remains to be seen, since the aftermath of the Cold War is currently being played out.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
There's a good review in The Guardian.

However I think it's worse noting that the Russians have squandred their chance of becoming an economic success and instead concetrated on the politics of the world stage and Putin. The subsequent sanctions against Russia have had a significant impact.

Europe did try to utilise a peace dividend, following the Cold War, however NATO under US leadership sought expansion and new roles, whilst America itself no longer confronted by a common enemy and purpose in relation to the Cold War, has become ever more politically divided.
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Very impressive review.

Do you think with Russia its a matter of show over substance?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
There is pretty convincing and conclusive evidence that the last part of the 20th century and up to now are the most peaceful and prosperous period in the history of mankind. So I would say a definite no, I do not agree.
Peaceful? How many wars have there been throughout the world in the last 50 years?
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:21 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
87,914 posts, read 81,736,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
This is from a review of a new book by Andrew Bacevich. What do you think about the view?


How Victory in the Cold War Led to Tragedy in the Years After
By Noah Millman

The Age of Illusions: How America Squandered Its Cold War Victory
By Andrew J. Bacevich

First, capitalism’s victory over Communism meant that the more unbounded capital was, through freer trade and more open capital markets, the better off Americans — and the world — would be. Second, as America’s military superiority was now overwhelming, we had the right, the ability and the obligation to dictate the terms of global peace, and to enforce that peace by making war. Finally, as freedom had proved itself superior to tyranny, Americans no longer had any reason to accept limits on their autonomy, or any reason to worry that other nations might take a different view of freedom than we did.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/b...sultPosition=1
What does it mean, "no longer had any reason to accept limits on their autonomy"? The limits on American citizens' autonomy began not long after the end of the Cold War; the NSA monitoring citizens' communications, the enforced Party line ("You're either with us, or you're against us" --George W. Bush, Stalin), behind-the-scenes curtailment of freedom of the press under Bush, to name a few.
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post

Peaceful? How many wars have there been throughout the world in the last 50 years?

Yes peaceful! I understand the misunderstanding - listening to the media (which focuses on the doom and gloom) you would think the end of days is near? It's simply a false assumption. How many world wars have there been? You have to consider not only wars but violence in any form.

It's actually on a declining trend since the mid 80s (end of cold war)

https://www.good.is/articles/closer-to-peace-than-ever

And in regards to overall history:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/we-en...b08c46f0e47130

Overall good news:
https://www.vox.com/2015/7/13/890839...ime-in-history
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Old 02-27-2020, 10:55 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Default The barn's already burnt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
This is from a review of a new book by Andrew Bacevich. What do you think about the view?


How Victory in the Cold War Led to Tragedy in the Years After
By Noah Millman

The Age of Illusions: How America Squandered Its Cold War Victory
By Andrew J. Bacevich


Bacevich is a good writer - see his Washington rules : America's path to permanent war / c2011. He's late to understanding that WA is a prisoner/warden of the MIC - & that US foreign policy now has very little to do with actual policy.

Were we - the US & the West in general - victorious over the Soviet bloc? I don't think so - no one seemed to notice or realize that the Soviets put up a brave front & lots of rhetoric, but their economy was unsustainable. If they didn't have oil (& some luxury goods) to barter for hard currencies, they'd have gone into their death throes in the late 1950s. As it was, they staggered zombie-like until 1991.

Should we - the US & West - have taken the bait & invaded Afghanistan & Iraq & all points everywhere in the War on Terror? No - it was poor judgment to invade (boots on the ground) either country. Punitive raids in Afghanistan were fine; in fact, they worked too well. A skinny US force with unlimited air control & arty smashed all the military resistance. We should have stayed out of Iraq altogether - Saddam was a dedicated enemy to Al Qaeda & any religious radical Islamic stirrings, & he served as a bulwark against Iran's Shia world ambitions.

The multiple invasions & incursions & whatever other military adventures we're (the US) up to in the World are sheer hubris. As if, to make up for entirely missing the main point to the Soviets (they were very weak, economically & politically), the intelligence community & military allowed themselves to be buffaloed by PNAC rethreads, & old ones @ that, with hardly any intelligence or military backgrounds whatsoever.

We should have stepped more carefully in Afghanistan, not @ all in Iraq, carefully in the Middle East, & trying to coopt political/economic cooperation in Eastern Europe. A more conservative & slower-paced strategic effort would have paid dividends in the long run, as opposed to the moonshine & political/economical/military chaos that we have as a result of ill-considered kneejerk decision-making.
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Old 02-27-2020, 04:51 PM
 
655 posts, read 220,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cida View Post
This is from a review of a new book by Andrew Bacevich. What do you think about the view?


How Victory in the Cold War Led to Tragedy in the Years After
By Noah Millman

The Age of Illusions: How America Squandered Its Cold War Victory
By Andrew J. Bacevich

First, capitalism’s victory over Communism meant that the more unbounded capital was, through freer trade and more open capital markets, the better off Americans — and the world — would be. Second, as America’s military superiority was now overwhelming, we had the right, the ability and the obligation to dictate the terms of global peace, and to enforce that peace by making war. Finally, as freedom had proved itself superior to tyranny, Americans no longer had any reason to accept limits on their autonomy, or any reason to worry that other nations might take a different view of freedom than we did.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/b...sultPosition=1

That mindset was perhaps there right after the end of the Cold War. But that period lasted only at most about 10 years, before 9/11.
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:37 PM
 
12,128 posts, read 11,013,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What does it mean, "no longer had any reason to accept limits on their autonomy"? The limits on American citizens' autonomy began not long after the end of the Cold War; the NSA monitoring citizens' communications, the enforced Party line ("You're either with us, or you're against us" --George W. Bush, Stalin), behind-the-scenes curtailment of freedom of the press under Bush, to name a few.
I interpreted that to mean: The U.S. no longer had any reason to accept other countries' limits on their autonomy. Like the way we feel we can shrug off international courts or international law.
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