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Old 03-02-2020, 07:56 PM
 
4,357 posts, read 1,820,687 times
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Ironic, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9 View Post
It was the murder of Kennedy that finally put the Left in charge of the US.
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Old 03-03-2020, 04:28 AM
 
5,792 posts, read 5,094,292 times
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Don't forget McCarthyism. The greatest generation was home from the war, working hard and raising kids, and meanwhile, there was a witch hunt going on in our country. I wonder how much McCarthyism had to do with the pendulum swing to the left.
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Old 03-03-2020, 04:44 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
4,752 posts, read 2,032,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Judge Robert Bork points out in his book Slouching Toward Gomorrah that in World War I we had a "singing army". By World War II the U.S. famously had a "wisecracking army". His point was that the culture had already changed between 1917 and 1942.

What caused it? Was is the Model T? Prohibition? Lucky Lindy? The Great Depression? Talkies? All of the above?

Good point.


Victorian morals of the late 19th/early 20th century--> The Flapper Age of the '20s, then a set-back in "moral decay" as the double crises of The Depression & then WWII led to the regimentation & goal-oriented work ethic of society thru the '50s.


Ironically, the Dems of the Viet Nam Era were the libertarians and now they've morphed in the authoritarians (No more Big Gulp for you!)


There has also been the political trends occurring over the past century or so-- office of the President was formerly not very influential. Congress ran things. It gradually increased in importance until it became a de facto dictatorship under FDR, and that coincided with The Great Depression when it took a strong central govt (and a major war) to pull us out of it.


The trend toward a paternalistic ("liberal") fed gov was predicted by the first observers of democracy: a democracy is doomed when the masses finally realize they can vote themselves benefits.


In '13, the 5oth anniversary of the JFK assassination, all the talking heads on cable news seemed to agree that he would have been a conservative by today's standards (trickle down economics. strong natl defense). That just shows how liberal we've become...The old " frog in the boiling water" analogy would seem to apply here.
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Old 03-03-2020, 05:22 AM
 
Location: North America
3,578 posts, read 1,258,143 times
Reputation: 14855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaddock View Post
Until mid-60s, right-wing deem to dominate in the west.
1) 'the west'? Why would the Vietnam War change politics in non-involved places like the UK, Canada, Germany?

2) What did the Vietnam War change? Domestic politics? That makes no sense. Containment? It didn't. Foreign intervention in other circumstances? Let's see. Sure, there was about a decade of post-Vietnam reticence by the U.S. to get involved in foreign military entanglements. But then:

1980s - Libya, Lebanon, Iran
1983 - Grenada
1989 - Panama
1900/91 - Iraq
1990s - Somalia, Yugoslavia, Iraq (sporadic re-engagements)
2001-ongoing - Afghanistan
2003-ongoing - Iraq
2011 - Libya

And those are just highlights.

3) The posters saying 'But LBJ was a Democrat!' need to learn that 'left wing' and 'Democrat' are not synonymous.
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Old 03-03-2020, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
16,983 posts, read 6,259,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaddock View Post
Until mid-60s, right-wing deem to dominate in the west.
The left emerged due to terrible conditions for the poor, with both the right and left taking advantage of events of the 1930's.

After WW2, Europe embarked on a strategy of making sure that poverty and social ills were erradicated and that such events wouldnot be repeated, and wefare states, social housing, universal healthcare etc emerged, in what was deemed a society fit for heroes.

Vietnam played a much greater part in US politics than the west as a whole, indeed Europe was more concentrated on the Cold War and Communism, with the radical left in the terms of communism being the enemy of the west.
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Old 03-03-2020, 10:43 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
34,295 posts, read 62,367,251 times
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Having been of draft age during the Vietnam war, I can tell you that many of us did in fact go more toward the left in an effort to end the senseless deaths of our peers in a war in which we had no business. However, after the war, and after finishing college and getting good jobs, many went back toward the moderate middle. It's my observation that the political right and left extremes have been only since Obama and now Trump. The two major parties have always disagreed and fought in Congress, but this radical extremism in both parties is something new. Both Bush presidents, Clinton, Carter, and even Reagan were far closer to the middle than our last two presidents, as were the general public.
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Old 03-03-2020, 11:22 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
13,384 posts, read 12,357,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Having been of draft age during the Vietnam war, I can tell you that many of us did in fact go more toward the left in an effort to end the senseless deaths of our peers in a war in which we had no business. However, after the war, and after finishing college and getting good jobs, many went back toward the moderate middle. It's my observation that the political right and left extremes have been only since Obama and now Trump. The two major parties have always disagreed and fought in Congress, but this radical extremism in both parties is something new. Both Bush presidents, Clinton, Carter, and even Reagan were far closer to the middle than our last two presidents, as were the general public.
We've been watching this thread while we tried to decide if it was appropriate for the History forum, or if the posts were discussing things too close to the present time. This morning the thread was reported as being more appropriate for P&OC. We were unsure about it until this this post confirms that the thread is discussing issues to close to the present. In terms of Presidents/administrations, we make the cutoff point the inauguration date of the immediate past President. See the Rules thread.
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Last edited by mensaguy; 03-03-2020 at 05:52 PM..
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