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Old 03-10-2020, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
10,852 posts, read 8,240,896 times
Reputation: 15375

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msgenerse View Post
I've read a lot of debate on whether or not dropping the nukes on Japan was really justified. How could they not be?

And it's so strange how anyone could have thought dropping the nukes wasn't 120% justified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I am not proud of the fact that we had to use the atomic bombs on the Japanese people. I wish it could have been avoided. I accept that it was necessary.
I agree with MarkG about the above sentiments.

But to answer the question, why are there people that question the use of Nuclear weapons on Japan?

Hindsight is always 20/20, and its easy to be an Armchair President/Premier/General. One must remember that there are now, and there were then those opposed to any war or act of violence, much less one that was deadly on a level not yet seen, even that for wars where there's little debate to their necessity such as WW2.

I think that the fears and concerns ushered in by the Nuclear age cause people to look back with different filters as well.

And, there's always contrarians that will argue that it had a lot more to do with the Soviet's declaring war on Japan, a viewpoint that has some credence even if it isn't a universal consensus. But even that argument falls when one considers the culture of pride/shame of IJ and the fact that the bomb gave them an exit door allowing surrender without mentioning "ah crap, the Soviets are in it now and we're cooked."
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Old 03-10-2020, 01:45 PM
Status: "Win or lose, America's baseball team - roar, Tigers, ROAR!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
14,535 posts, read 8,900,215 times
Reputation: 18636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Msgenerse View Post
I've read a lot of debate on whether or not dropping the nukes on Japan was really justified. How could they not be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9 View Post
Because the people who were killed were not soldiers.

Because the people who were killed did not choose to start the war. Or continue the war.

There are a number of moral issues that simply never occur to you. Those issues do, however, occur to others.
And there are a few other issues that apparently never occurred to you.

This isn't a scenario where only combatants, or even civilians of the initial aggressor are affected.

My father was a World War II draftee; at the time of the bombings, he was assigned to advanced infantry training in anticipation of the invasion of the Japanese home islands, Even had he not been killed, he might have been maimed to a degree that he would not have been able to resume a normal working life (He was a dairy farmer; not exactly a sedentary occupation).

Unless a person has an ancestor who served in a combat (or anticipated combat) role with Allied forces in WWII, they have no right to question President Truman's decision. Because if Truman and the Allied leadership had taken a less-determined stance, they might not be here.
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:01 PM
 
9,832 posts, read 4,785,574 times
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Because those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Didn't agree with that overkill tactic then....certainly holds true today.
No question in my mind from a ecological stance and human stance we did kill just as violently as the Germans did to the ones in death camps. The sums are still there....generations suffered.
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:25 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,497 posts, read 2,071,871 times
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Default There were substanitial differences in approach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post
Because those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Didn't agree with that overkill tactic then....certainly holds true today.
No question in my mind from a ecological stance and human stance we did kill just as violently as the Germans did to the ones in death camps. The sums are still there....generations suffered.
We being the US? No, it wasn't US policy to murder POWs nor civilians. On the battlefield, we'd kill enemy combatants while they fought us. The Holocaust was an attempt to kill all the Jews, & Roma, homosexuals, political opponents, Communists, anyone who opposed the Nazi regime for whatever reason. The Imperial Japanese military also went out of its way to behave as badly as they possibly could.

If we had truly been as bloodthirsty as the Nazis or Imperial Japan @ their worst, we would have continued killing all the able-bodied men. We would certainly never have helped rebuild both countries, nor shipped in food, clothing, shelter & etc. to help tide them over until they could get back on their feet.

Both the German & Japanese models of governance went severely off the tracks in the 1930s, & crossed lines that are very hard to reestablish once crossed. We & the Allies did our best to put their governments on better footing. So far, it seems to have worked.
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:34 PM
 
14,216 posts, read 20,464,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post
Because those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Didn't agree with that overkill tactic then....certainly holds true today.
No question in my mind from a ecological stance and human stance we did kill just as violently as the Germans did to the ones in death camps. The sums are still there....generations suffered.
Here we go again...

Factually speaking, you are incorrect (depending on how you define "violently").

The total death count of WW2 is a staggering 80 milllion, including 50 million civilians: Nazi Germany is directly responsible for the death of at least 10 million civilian Jews, Russians, and other minorities. Japan is directly responsible for at least 20 million civilian deaths throughout Asia in such violent means as to be almost unmentionable. Many more died from famine or disiese, the terrible byproducts of war that can be attributed to those that started that war.

To even compare the atomic bomb, or allied bombing, to Nazi death camps, or the atrocities committed by the Imperial Japanese Army, trivializes these events, including the holocaust, to such a degree as to be insulting to those victims and the survivors of both. The big different here - Japan and Germany mostly committed these atrocities to regions that were occupied, or to POWs. In other words - to a people that were no longer at war.

I have to be careful here, I am not insulting you but the idea behind your post and comparisons - it disgusts me.

Last edited by Dd714; 03-10-2020 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,571 posts, read 20,681,000 times
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The atomic bomb was a more efficient application of what was already being done to Japan with conventional weapons. I'm pressed to see why someone would sign off on the Tokyo firebombing, but recoil at the idea of the atomic bombs and find them immoral.
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:11 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
10,652 posts, read 5,748,019 times
Reputation: 20031
This will be debated forever. Japan and Nazi Germany were trying to develop A-bombs and we beat them to it. It may not have been a close race but if they had developed the bomb first they would have used it. I suspect Germany would have been happy to use it on the Russians. Japan might have nuked some islands to keep the US at a distance. Both of those options would have prolonged the war. Hitting the home islands ended it.
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:18 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
6,796 posts, read 4,582,032 times
Reputation: 12191
Can you imagine if Truman ignored the potential destructive power of atom bombs and went with conventional bombing and invasion of the Japanese home islands? Thousands of Gold Star mothers demanding his head.
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:53 PM
 
466 posts, read 165,430 times
Reputation: 1310
If it was other way around, those in support today would be singing a different tune. The bombs targeted civilians, not government/military installations. War crimes!

"The top American military leaders who fought World War II, much to the surprise of many who are not aware of the record, were quite clear that the atomic bomb was unnecessary, that Japan was on the verge of surrender, and—for many—that the destruction of large numbers of civilians was immoral."

“It was a mistake.... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.” —Adm. William “Bull” Halsey

https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...bed-hiroshima/

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons." --- Admiral William Leahy –

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-re...-lives/5308192
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Old 03-10-2020, 04:17 PM
Status: "Win or lose, America's baseball team - roar, Tigers, ROAR!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
14,535 posts, read 8,900,215 times
Reputation: 18636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post
No question in my mind from a(n) ecological stance and human stance we did kill just as violently as the Germans did to the ones in death camps. The sums are still there....generations suffered.
TRANSLATION: I have adopted my own definition of morality in the 20/20 hindsight championed by the "pop wisdom" of the present day.
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