U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-10-2020, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,571 posts, read 20,551,016 times
Reputation: 20991

Advertisements

Rastafellow



Quote:
"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons." --- Admiral William Leahy

Except that they didn't.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-10-2020, 07:36 PM
 
14,030 posts, read 20,252,438 times
Reputation: 23571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastafellow View Post
If it was other way around, those in support today would be singing a different tune. The bombs targeted civilians, not government/military installations. War crimes!

"The top American military leaders who fought World War II, much to the surprise of many who are not aware of the record, were quite clear that the atomic bomb was unnecessary, that Japan was on the verge of surrender, and—for many—that the destruction of large numbers of civilians was immoral."

“It was a mistake.... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.” —Adm. William “Bull” Halsey

https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...bed-hiroshima/

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons." --- Admiral William Leahy –

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-re...-lives/5308192
Once again wrong (I feel like a broken record here). Once again, candidates for the "ignorance" category. Guys come on, learn your history, just not what you happened to read in some internet blog! Now indeed both were in urban centers but they were legitimate military targets due to being industrial and military hubs:

Hiroshima was headquarters of IJA 2nd army (commanding some 400,000 troops at that time), which would have been the lead for any defense of the south during an allied invasion. Also HQ for several divisions of the 59th army. Some 40,000 Japanese troops were headquartered in the city at the time of the bombing.

Nagasaki, which was a secondary target due to weather conditions over the primary target, was a major industrial center and port. Mitsubishi steel/shipyards were there, builder of battleships. At that phase of the war they were, I believe, active in churning out suicide craft to be used in anticipation of the allied invasion.

The various phrases from military leaders have to be taken into context. For instance Leahy was against the bomb for more pragmatic reasons than morality - he was afraid it would be used against us, and he was clearly wrong that the Japanese were not ready to surrender.

Last edited by Dd714; 03-10-2020 at 07:47 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2020, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
8,993 posts, read 5,075,745 times
Reputation: 22086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastafellow View Post
If it was other way around, those in support today would be singing a different tune. The bombs targeted civilians, not government/military installations. War crimes!

"The top American military leaders who fought World War II, much to the surprise of many who are not aware of the record, were quite clear that the atomic bomb was unnecessary, that Japan was on the verge of surrender, and—for many—that the destruction of large numbers of civilians was immoral."

“It was a mistake.... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.” —Adm. William “Bull” Halsey

https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...bed-hiroshima/

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons." --- Admiral William Leahy –

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-re...-lives/5308192
Admiral Halsey's opinion was a little more nuanced than is suggested here, at least according to this quote in the Joplin (Missouri) Globe of September 8, 1946. He said, "The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. It was a mistake to ever drop it. Why reveal a weapon like that to the world when it wasn't necessary?" (He then goes on to make the comment about the scientists and their toy.) To me, this sounds like an objection more on strategic grounds than moral grounds.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1168...f-halsey-says/

As for Admiral Leahy, my thought is that his objection might be due more to inter-service jealousies than moral considerations. After all, he would have wanted his Navy to win the glory for defeating Japan, not have the credit hogged by the Army Air Corps. This is just my opinion, but I think it's at least plausible, given the words of his quote. In any case, I think history shows that the Japanese were not yet ready to surrender prior to the bomb.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2020, 11:00 PM
 
12,588 posts, read 8,196,722 times
Reputation: 24147
Short answer, because they are STUPID!

Having had the honor, and pleasure of having known both General Paul Tibbits (pilot of the Enola Gay) and Major Dutch Van Kirk (navigator of the Enola Gay), I know that they both knew that they saved hundreds of thousands American and possibly well over a million Japanese by dropping the bomb
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2020, 11:02 PM
 
5,081 posts, read 4,234,071 times
Reputation: 12531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastafellow View Post
“It was a mistake.... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.” —Adm. William “Bull” Halsey
Every account I've read says the scientists were opposed to military use of the bomb. Try it out, sure, but not on a city. I have to question the veracity of this quote.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2020, 05:49 PM
 
7,937 posts, read 3,700,607 times
Reputation: 24009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor View Post
It is interesting that you would say now if it were the other way around Japan dropped atomic bombs on the USA, if they had them?
Of course, this would be an "unthinkable crime against humanity"

But in essence the question: from a military point of view, this was completely meaningless, because Japan practically capitulated, it was a matter of several months and everyone understood this. And it’s clear to the fool that it was just a signal for the USSR: ".. Look, we have a superweapon! You are on the line!".

This is complete nonsense. The Japanese war cabinet was still intent on fighting the war the morning of Nagasaki, with both the military and civilian populace preparing for a long, protracted, and bloody struggle. The IJ army still held huge swaths of China, Korea, and Indochina. In fact, elements of the Japanese military tried to stage a coup when the surrender was announced.

In truth, the dropping of bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the least horrific in terms of options. Blockade Japan into starvation? Allow the Imperial Japanese Army to wage war in China for more months? Invade Japan and incur massive casualties?

Remember that the firebombing of Tokyo killed 100,000 civilians just four months earlier. The casualties in that raid were higher than inflicted by either of the atomic bombs. Yet it certainly didn't dispirit the Japanese defenders during the Battle of Okinawa.

It's very easy to nitpick things now, but the Allies had no good choices. They chose the one that would have enough shock value to force an immediate surrender. And, given how my father was in uniform and on a troopship at the end of the war, I'm awfully glad events transpired the way they did, as opposed to the possible alternatives.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2020, 02:35 AM
 
142 posts, read 63,967 times
Reputation: 311
So why didn't the Japanese immediately surrender after we dropped the first nuke? How freaking stupid were they?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2020, 07:08 AM
 
5,081 posts, read 4,234,071 times
Reputation: 12531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Msgenerse View Post
So why didn't the Japanese immediately surrender after we dropped the first nuke? How freaking stupid were they?
The bombings were 3 days apart. One was uranium, and the other plutonium. Clearly the plan was to drop two bombs, then talk. The Americans wanted to give the impression that they would drop another one every 3 days, but in reality there were only the two. They sued for peace immediately after the second bomb.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2020, 09:58 AM
 
11,091 posts, read 10,656,392 times
Reputation: 35581
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
The bombings were 3 days apart. One was uranium, and the other plutonium. Clearly the plan was to drop two bombs, then talk. The Americans wanted to give the impression that they would drop another one every 3 days, but in reality there were only the two. They sued for peace immediately after the second bomb.
Well, not quite. Curtis LeMay believed he would have a third bomb ready for use by August 19th. He than believed he would have three more ready by September and than another three in October. The Manhattan Project was up to speed and was supplying bombs in some reasonable quantity.

Don't get me wrong though. Sadly, the use of these bombs was a necessity to bring about the surrender of Japan.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2020, 01:41 PM
 
14,030 posts, read 20,252,438 times
Reputation: 23571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Msgenerse View Post
So why didn't the Japanese immediately surrender after we dropped the first nuke? How freaking stupid were they?
Heck, many didn't want to surrender even after the second bomb. It was the Emperor that had to intervene, and even then there was an attempted coup by the military leadership to put the Emperor under house arrest and continue with the war effort. That's how silly the false "well the Japanese were close to surrendering" argument is.

You have to realize the fanatical nature of the Japanese leadership at that time to understand, and that was reflected in the population. They were willing to sacrifice every man, woman, and child in Japan because they thought that was their duty. Surrender was not an option, only death was.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top