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Old 03-26-2020, 02:14 PM
Status: "He's trying to pull a Ronald 'McDonald' Miller scam on us.." (set 12 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
With modern communications and the 24 hour a day spotlight that people are in today I don't think the Founding Fathers would be viewed the way we view them.
.. because the media of the time was not as 'developed' as it is now those faults were not brought into full light
So I think there could be people who rise to the occasion but it will be in a different manner and with a different combination of skills..
Very good point.. Founders did not have their flaws widely exposed or analyzed by a mass media. So for many generations they were evaluated mostly on their more widely known positive traits.. more recent leaders have been more holistically evaluated on their widely reported flaws & strengths. So there was an institutional advantage for the reputation of the Founders.. but now with the sins of the Founders in full view.. I still believe the Founders were an innately higher quality/talent of men. I don't think it has to do with education (like cited at times in our thread), bcuz Washington didn't have much formal education. He learned surveying on the job, etc.. I don't see men like Obama or Bush Jr possessing the physical courage of Washington (?) Or Trump having the intellect or imagination of Jefferson (?) They're not even close.

For whatever reason, the Founders were a unique, highly qualified collection of men.. it was internal hardwiring, more than external influence..
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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It might be a matter of our having a plentiful supply of founding father material in our society, but such people no longer getting elected as our representatives. Being good at getting elected, and being good at running a nation, aren't necessarily compatible skills.
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:17 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 908,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
With modern communications and the 24 hour a day spotlight that people are in today I don't think the Founding Fathers would be viewed the way we view them. A rabble rouser in the same style as Bernie Sanders, a philanderer to equal Clinton (or any of several high profile politicians), an older gentleman that would be considered a sexual predator. The owner of a large multifacited industrial enterprise who took advantage of enslaved and indentured workers. Then there was the wife of one who took advantage of the financial markets to make money by buying the promissory notes issued to discharged soldiers instead of the pay they were owed.


But because the media of the time was not as 'developed' as it is now those faults were not brought into full light and they were able to work together 'for the greater good'. The 'Brilliance' of the bicameral legislature was a political deal. The small states were afraid of being overwhelmed by the large states (combined with the states that were afraid of their 'special institution') and forced a compromise to b e developed.



And does anyone think that we could take the 'leaders' and lock them in a room to put together a document to organize and run a nation AND NOT HAVE ANYONE RUN OFF AT THE MOUTH for months while the 'deal' was put together? Even today we know very little about how the 'deal' was put together because no one wrote about the process for years and by then there was no one left to dispute his views. That 'deal' was the Constitution. Yes there were some ugly fights to get it approved but no one pointed fingers about how the deal was put together.


So I think there could be people who rise to the occasion but it will be in a different manner and with a different combination of skills that represent a the modern times if we need it. Just don't be blind to the weaknesses of the ones that rose to the occasion in the past.
So are you talking about Jefferson, Franklin and Washington in the first paragraph?
In any case excellent point. The Founding Fathers had been mythologized to such an extent that their human flaws are all but forgotten by most.
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Old 03-26-2020, 10:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
So are you talking about Jefferson, Franklin and Washington in the first paragraph?
In any case excellent point. The Founding Fathers had been mythologized to such an extent that their human flaws are all but forgotten by most.

You missed one. There are 4 described :-) And I don't think they were unique. They were just the ones that came to mind to make the point.
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