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Old 03-08-2020, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Redwood Shores, CA
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I'm talking about people like Ben Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, etc.; people who made monumental impact in the country's history.

Who in today's America might attain same stature in the 22nd century? Or if no one, why might that be, considering there were so many around 1776?
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Old 03-08-2020, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
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The country was only created once, so the founding fathers will always be considered more prominent because of their role during that time. It's like people will always associate Steve Jobs and Bill Gates as the geniuses who started Apple and Microsoft, even though they have been replaced by people who might be equally smart and innovative.

I have my ideas about who will be most talked about in the history books of the future for their impact today, but to do so would get this thread moved immediately to the politics forum.
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:05 AM
 
11,124 posts, read 10,684,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
I'm talking about people like Ben Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, etc.; people who made monumental impact in the country's history.

Who in today's America might attain same stature in the 22nd century? Or if no one, why might that be, considering there were so many around 1776?
I have always believed that its the times that make people. When challenging circumstances are present many people are able to rise to the challenge. In more placid times, these people are generally pursuing personal and family interests. We have plenty of talented people in America.

In short, if a war or crisis were present, people you have never heard of would emerge and deal effectively with the problems of the day.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:15 PM
 
14,059 posts, read 20,296,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
I'm talking about people like Ben Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, etc.; people who made monumental impact in the country's history.

Who in today's America might attain same stature in the 22nd century? Or if no one, why might that be, considering there were so many around 1776?
We can't really discuss modern politics here but a simple answer - none today in politics.
These people were visionaries more than politicians. They rose to the occasion to fit a need - to create a more perfect union. Basically from a clean slate - to create a government of the people. Those needs don't exist today in modern politics.
Of course, visionaries still exist today, but most of them are in private enterprise or working in giant think tanks. Entrepreneurs, scientists, etc. Lincoln perhaps I see as the last true great visionary working in politics. Again, he rose to the need.
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Old 03-08-2020, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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The founders deserve great credit for the successful revolution, and for the writing of the US Constitution. That does not mean that they were all altruists with no self gain in mind. Keep in mind that the reasons for the revolution were not initially to create a utopian government, rather it was to avoid being taxed, and it was to open up the lands east of the Appalachians which the British had declared a native sanctuary and prohibited its exploitation by the colonists. It is not at all untrue to say that some of the revolutionaries were fighting for the right to enrich themselves by displacing those native tribes and taking their lands. Some were fighting because the Brits had clamped down on the lucrative smuggling operations which flaunted British taxes and laws.

In the final complaint against King George listed in the Declaration of Independence, we find:
Quote:
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
The "domestic insurrections" was a specific reference to the colonial governor of Virginia, Lord Dunmore, and his proclamation that any slaves who escaped from their masters, would be welcomed to British protection if they were willing to bear arms on behalf of the Crown. The Virginian response was to form militias specifically charged with patrolling the country and capturing any slaves attempting to respond to Dunmore's offer. One of the most effective of these groups of slave catchers was led by Patrick Henry of "liberty or death" fame.

These were human beings and in any gathering of humans, be it lawyers, doctors, brick masons or stable hands, you will find some admirable people with idealistic frames of mind, some who are partly idealistic and partly looking after their own concerns, and some who were only looking after their own concerns.
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:42 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
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Do we have founding fathers-quality people today?

Yes, but I didn't qualify for a life in politics....My parents were married, you see.
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Old 03-10-2020, 08:01 PM
 
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I don't know about 'renaissance men' as we lucked out with at that point in history but I think their are some young people who could do a job if they can be kept from the big money interests trying to compromise / influence them.


My current congressman would be a great candidate in another 6-10 years, Heck, I'm tempted to write him in as President in 2020 after listening to him talk about issues.


https://anthonygonzalez.house.gov/


I've also met a young woman involved in foundation work who really has her act together and would be a great candidate in 10-15 years as such a leader if that was her interest.
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Old 03-10-2020, 08:23 PM
 
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No we don't have polymaths and autodidacts like existed back then. Knowledge is so complex now compared to then that you need about 20 years of formal study (including primary and secondary basic skills) to become an expert in a subject. This necessitates specialization such that no one person can have a mastery of many topics like the Founding Fathers. We compensate with better communication and collaboration tools.
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Old 03-12-2020, 04:33 AM
Status: "He's trying to pull a Ronald 'McDonald' Miller scam on us.." (set 13 days ago)
 
2,173 posts, read 1,338,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertFisher View Post
IOr if no one, why might that be, considering there were so many around 1776?
My opinion, it was a dramatic time (& place) in history.. that tested and elicited the genius of the American population. Currently we're not having that kind of dramatic test/challenge (forming/solidifying a new country). And our stock of innate genius has probably declined anyways, even if it is/was to be similarly tested.

It was just one of those things, the American Revolution had a unique, motivated concentration of talent.
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Old 03-12-2020, 01:08 PM
 
7,955 posts, read 3,729,087 times
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The Founding Fathers were guided by Enlightenment principles, which came to the fore in the aftermath of two centuries of religious wars. So there was a keen interest in the time for deciding and establishing a government that would ultimately deliver the most material happiness to the people while simultaneously delivering the highest degree of freedom.



But the Founding Fathers were also flawed men in many ways. I've always said that John Adams, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison would never stand up to the 24/7 media scrutiny that follows candidates today.



It says a great deal that the Lincoln Douglas debates went on for hours. Today, we have three-minute answers where the only thing that matters is offering up glib sound bites.



So as a result of television, we don't have politicians or statesmen, we have glorified game show hosts. Men and women with perfect hair, gleaming teeth, and flawless attire, but are empty on the inside.
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