U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-14-2020, 08:51 PM
 
1,396 posts, read 652,858 times
Reputation: 4873

Advertisements

.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-14-2020, 08:53 PM
 
1,396 posts, read 652,858 times
Reputation: 4873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan Vozdig View Post
What do you mean by they weren't that desperate ?

Is English your second language? If so, maybe someone else will explain it to you.








Hint: It was just a joke. Lighten up, Francis.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2020, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Hungary
297 posts, read 94,390 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas863 View Post
Is English your second language? If so, maybe someone else will explain it to you.








Hint: It was just a joke. Lighten up, Francis.


Yes English is my second language and I'm not offended at all by your reply , it's just that I'm curious why you wrote that maybe Appalachians weren't that desperate .
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2020, 01:18 AM
 
24,985 posts, read 17,601,749 times
Reputation: 18144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan Vozdig View Post
Even as early as the post WW2 period ?


I mean I know that textile manufacturing in New England slipped into a period of decline as far back as the 1930s , however the same didn't apply to all manufacturing sectors in cities like NYC and Philadelphia , unless I'm mistaken ...

Granted it's also a fact that Northeastern cities didn't have the same type of industry ( like auto and steel manufacturing ) that the Great Lakes states did , yet there was still a good bit of light industrial activity ( such as garment manufacture ) going on in cities like NYC into the 80s ...

Come to think of it I've actually read that many Appalachians migrated to cities like Akron , because they thought that working in a rubber factory was much easier and safer as opposed to working in a coal mine ...

Which makes the fact that Northeastern cities with plenty of light industry ( like NYC ) not having received significant numbers of Appalachian migrants all the more stranger ...
By middle 1950's or early 1960's the civil rights movement became a hot mess with race riots pretty much happening from Massachusetts down through New Jersey. As such whites were fleeing urban areas for the suburbs and urban manufacturing either shut down or moved elsewhere.

Truth to tell manufacturing began leaving northeast for the south and later Latin America because of unions, high COL, wages, etc... and better quality of life for workers and their families.

I grew up in the NYC of 1970's, and in case you missed it the city was busted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...#Fiscal_crisis

in fact entire US economy was busted as well (remember stagflation?) and businesses or whatever responded by laying people off, closing factories, etc... This was the beginning of what would make up the Rust Belt. From upstate NY right on down through PA and into parts of mid-west places were going bankrupt, shutting down, or whatever left and right.

In light of those things you can see why Appalachian migrants wouldn't relocate to Northeastern areas; there was nothing to lure nor keep them here.

Those with marketable skills such as professionals or with higher education may have found something, but they too were likely better off heading west with everyone else.

White flight out of northeastern urban areas really only ended rather recently. It has only been since 2000's that whites have begun moving back into NYC and other areas their parents or grandparents fled in droves.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2020, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Hungary
297 posts, read 94,390 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
By middle 1950's or early 1960's the civil rights movement became a hot mess with race riots pretty much happening from Massachusetts down through New Jersey. As such whites were fleeing urban areas for the suburbs and urban manufacturing either shut down or moved elsewhere.

Truth to tell manufacturing began leaving northeast for the south and later Latin America because of unions, high COL, wages, etc... and better quality of life for workers and their families.

I grew up in the NYC of 1970's, and in case you missed it the city was busted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...#Fiscal_crisis

in fact entire US economy was busted as well (remember stagflation?) and businesses or whatever responded by laying people off, closing factories, etc... This was the beginning of what would make up the Rust Belt. From upstate NY right on down through PA and into parts of mid-west places were going bankrupt, shutting down, or whatever left and right.

In light of those things you can see why Appalachian migrants wouldn't relocate to Northeastern areas; there was nothing to lure nor keep them here.

Those with marketable skills such as professionals or with higher education may have found something, but they too were likely better off heading west with everyone else.

White flight out of northeastern urban areas really only ended rather recently. It has only been since 2000's that whites have begun moving back into NYC and other areas their parents or grandparents fled in droves.

Yes I know that NYC entered into a period of decline in the 1970s , however that was well after the wave of Appalachian migration began in the post WW2 era ...

In fact that 70s were the decade that the influx of both blacks and whites from the south came to a halt if I'm not mistaken ...

In short I still don't see why Appalachian migrants didn't start moving to cities like NYC back in the late 1940s like they did to cities like Chicago .
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2020, 02:17 AM
 
18,696 posts, read 10,545,407 times
Reputation: 33073
Northern New England is a continuation of the Appalachian Mountain chain. The three whitest states in the country with no cities. Their biggest export is college educated 20-somethings who move to the urban areas for the economic opportunities. I did my undergrad in Vermont. The native Vermonter classmates I know scattered all over the country. Aren’t places like West Virginia the same way? Those places are low population. They assimilate into suburbia and the cities and you have no idea where they’re from.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2020, 02:45 AM
 
Location: Hungary
297 posts, read 94,390 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Northern New England is a continuation of the Appalachian Mountain chain. The three whitest states in the country with no cities. Their biggest export is college educated 20-somethings who move to the urban areas for the economic opportunities. I did my undergrad in Vermont. The native Vermonter classmates I know scattered all over the country. Aren’t places like West Virginia the same way? Those places are low population. They assimilate into suburbia and the cities and you have no idea where they’re from.

Yes the Appalachian Mountain range extends pretty far up north IIRC , however isn't the culture of people living in the New England part of it drastically different from those living in the Upper Southern part of it ?


I mean I could be completely wrong about this , but to my knowledge the entirety of New England was originally settled by East Anglian Puritans while the Upper South ( especially the Appalachian part of it ) was settled by fairly irreverent and ( later ) oftentimes Evangelical " Scots Irish " people who originated from the Anglo Scottish border country by way of Northern Ireland ...

In short the two cultures are radically different to my knowledge and all historical accounts I've read agree that Appalachian migrants in the North did not at all seamlessly assimilate into suburbia , in fact they were very much resented by many locals , much like their African American counterparts from throughout the South .
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-15-2020, 02:06 PM
 
Location: SF/East Bay
3,345 posts, read 4,135,840 times
Reputation: 3698
I guess it depends on timing, but many Appalachain migrants went South via the Great Wagon Road to the Carolinas.

Re: New England, East Anglian Puritans tended to hug the coast. But New England did not get a lot of immigrants from outside of England until after the Rev War.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2020, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Hungary
297 posts, read 94,390 times
Reputation: 173
FWIW could the presumably stronger influence of labor unions in Northeastern cities have had something to do with the fact that they didn't receive an influx of Appalachian migrants ?

In other words can it be said that labor unions based there used their political clout to discourage Appalachian migration ?

I'm asking because I've read that many companies in the Great Lakes states deliberately encouraged the migration of Appalachian workers due to the perception that they were less likely to unionize , which may very well have not endeared them to labor unions in the Northeast .
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2020, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
35,685 posts, read 64,968,739 times
Reputation: 58774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan Vozdig View Post
It's a widely known historical fact that many Appalachians migrated to cities like Columbus , Detroit , and Chicago in the post WW2 era , however the same cannot be said of places like Philadelphia , NYC , and Boston
I don't know about the other two, but your premise about Philadelphia is incorrect. Probably about Columbus, too - the Ohio cities with larger Appalachian migration are Cincinnati, Dayton, Akron, and Toledo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
They assimilate into suburbia and the cities and you have no idea where they’re from.
The lower the numbers, the easier to assimilate. The higher the numbers, the more likely to congregate. In Cincinnati, many descendants from Appalachian migrants have chosen not to assimilate; instead, they celebrate their heritage instead of downplaying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khan Vozdig View Post
FWIW could the presumably stronger influence of labor unions in Northeastern cities have had something to do with the fact that they didn't receive an influx of Appalachian migrants ?
You're forgetting the most obvious reason: distance. Distance, and access. Detroit had the Dixie Highway - U.S. 25 - which stretched from Tennessee and Kentucky into western Ohio and Michigan. Cincinnati - the first stop north from Appalachia - is 3 or 4 hours from eastern Kentucky, Dayton another hour, and Detroit is another 4 hours. Well,it took an hour or two longer before the interstates. Kentucky to Baltimore or Philadelphia is a lot longer, with or without interstates.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top