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Old 05-08-2020, 09:41 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
21,531 posts, read 8,716,437 times
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I was watching Ken Burns's excellent PBS documentary, "The Roosevelts," last night. It was the final episode, in which FDR dies at Warm Springs. When Eleanor arrives from Washington and asks FDR's cousin Daisy Suckley to tell her exactly what happened, Daisy informs her that FDR's former mistress Lucy Mercer Rutherfurd was with him when he died, that he'd been seeing her regularly, and that their trysts were arranged by FDR and Eleanor's daughter Anna.

Doesn't this seem like a bitchy and cruel thing to do? Suckley could have explained the circumstances of FDR's death without bringing any of that up. I don't know why, but this really bothers me. The knowledge of FDR's and Anna's betrayal served no purpose other than to add to Eleanor's anguish. Why do you think she did this?
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:35 PM
 
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Wasn't the marriage effectively over many years before?
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Lahaina, Hi.
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Sounds more like an episode of The Simpsons.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:02 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therblig View Post
Wasn't the marriage effectively over many years before?
Yes, it was. In 1918, after Eleanor discovered that her social secretary Lucy Mercer (later Rutherfurd) was FDR's mistress, she offered to divorce him. He knew that a divorce would ruin his political chances, so he agreed to stop seeing Lucy if she would stay married to him. The marriage was in name only, but it was a strong political partnership and they still loved and respected each other.

FDR broke his promise. Of course it this is understandable since he was in a sexless marriage. This is not what bothers me. What bothers me is that Daisy Suckley felt it was necessary to tell Eleanor that FDR was still seeing Lucy and that Lucy had been with him when he died. Why did she do this? Did she hate Eleanor and want to hurt her at what must have been the saddest and most difficult time of her life? Did she enjoy causing pain? I just don't get it.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:05 PM
 
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Wasn’t Eleanore a lesbian by then?
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:14 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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You might find some clues as to why Margaret Daisy Suckley chose to tell Eleanor here:

At the Home of F.D.R.’s Secret Friend:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/t...s/07daisy.html

“Closest Companion: The Unknown Story of the Intimate Friendship Between Franklin Roosevelt and Margaret Suckley,â€
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,106 posts, read 41,226,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayarea4 View Post
I was watching Ken Burns's excellent PBS documentary, "The Roosevelts," last night. It was the final episode, in which FDR dies at Warm Springs. When Eleanor arrives from Washington and asks FDR's cousin Daisy Suckley to tell her exactly what happened, Daisy informs her that FDR's former mistress Lucy Mercer Rutherfurd was with him when he died, that he'd been seeing her regularly, and that their trysts were arranged by FDR and Eleanor's daughter Anna.

Doesn't this seem like a bitchy and cruel thing to do? Suckley could have explained the circumstances of FDR's death without bringing any of that up. I don't know why, but this really bothers me. The knowledge of FDR's and Anna's betrayal served no purpose other than to add to Eleanor's anguish. Why do you think she did this?
I haven't seen the documentary. What did it say about Eleanor's love life?

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/662468/pdf
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Old 05-09-2020, 12:18 AM
 
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^Beat me to it.

But here's some more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorena_Hickok
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-...affair/9918614

People work out all kinds of arrangements...especially in those days. Those who wring their hands about today's divorce rate might well consider yesteryear's erm, ...accommodations.
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Old 05-09-2020, 12:57 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
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Thanks for the links. I think that it is possible that Daisy Suckley had a crush on her cousin and that he enjoyed the adulation. For this reason she may have been jealous of Eleanor and may have secretly enjoyed causing her pain.

As for Eleanor, she grew up a motherless child, hungry for affection. Close friendships with women filled an emotional need for her. It also needs to be pointed out that in her day it was quite common for close female friends to express physical affection by holding hands, putting their arms around each other, cuddling and even kissing, and no one thought anything of it. It's only in modern times that we read lesbianism into what may have been completely innocent behavior.

I've always suspected that the reason Eleanor had a falling out with her friend Lorena Hickok (who was known to be a lesbian) is that Lorena may have pushed for a sexual relationship, but Eleanor rebuffed her. We'll never know. What we do know is that she became very attached to some of the men in her life, particularly journalist and author Joseph Lash and her physician, David Gurewitsch. She lived next door to Gurewitsch in New York City, wrote letters to him every day, was devastated when he married and called him the love of her life.

I don't really care whether Eleanor was a lesbian, but I do wish Daisy Suckley had kept her mouth shut.
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Old 05-09-2020, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,106 posts, read 41,226,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayarea4 View Post
Thanks for the links. I think that it is possible that Daisy Suckley had a crush on her cousin and that he enjoyed the adulation. For this reason she may have been jealous of Eleanor and may have secretly enjoyed causing her pain.

As for Eleanor, she grew up a motherless child, hungry for affection. Close friendships with women filled an emotional need for her. It also needs to be pointed out that in her day it was quite common for close female friends to express physical affection by holding hands, putting their arms around each other, cuddling and even kissing, and no one thought anything of it. It's only in modern times that we read lesbianism into what may have been completely innocent behavior.

I've always suspected that the reason Eleanor had a falling out with her friend Lorena Hickok (who was known to be a lesbian) is that Lorena may have pushed for a sexual relationship, but Eleanor rebuffed her. We'll never know. What we do know is that she became very attached to some of the men in her life, particularly journalist and author Joseph Lash and her physician, David Gurewitsch. She lived next door to Gurewitsch in New York City, wrote letters to him every day, was devastated when he married and called him the love of her life.

I don't really care whether Eleanor was a lesbian, but I do wish Daisy Suckley had kept her mouth shut.
You need to read the correspondence between Hick and Eleanor.
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