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Old 06-06-2020, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Mystery solved. Just before being taken out for execution, Joan consumed an entire package of:

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Old 06-06-2020, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
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This should be in the 'supernatural' freak show forum, not 'History'.
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Old 06-06-2020, 05:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Mystery solved.
For the win.
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Southern MN
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Well, there is the case of the Buddhist monk who burned himself to death to protest the regime of Ngo Dinh Diem during the Vietnam War. His body was also burned twice but the heart remains today as a relic in a pagoda as a symbol of compassion.

A crematorium can completely consume most of human body but the methods that these people used probably didn't reach anywhere near the temperature of a professional method.

The heart is well protected deep in the chest cavity, has a lot of moisture in it and is made of firm flesh. It goes without saying that it wouldn't present in a normal condition, obviously, and might be a piece of charred flesh.

So there are those things to considered.

Don't mistake the symbolism of what this may mean to believers with the factual possibilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích..._and_symbolism
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:40 PM
 
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Yes, there's a vast difference between being slowly roasted over a wood fire or scorched from a coating of flammable material, and being put in an oven with 3,000 degree flames for an hour. A lot of paranormal (and religious) claims muddy the difference; see any thread on "spontaneous human combustion." Or the case of the Sodder children, for a sort of reverse claim.
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:50 PM
 
27 posts, read 3,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
What 'sources'? There are no credible sources for such outlandish accounts.

At the time, they were easily explicable, these various degrees of popular veneration that will be unconsciously echoed by the witnesses in the rehabilitation suit. At Rouen, for instance, the people knew Joan in the character of a martyr, of a young prisoner who had aroused their curiosity ("Everybody wanted to see her", two witnesses will say, Pierre Daron and Laurent Guedson); of a heroine whom they saw one day led to the stake by a host of men at arms, "uttering such pious lamentations" that none of the spectators, even the English, could hold back his tears. In the midst of the flames, she had not ceased to call on the name of Jesus, and when she gave her last sigh, a dove was seen to fly away in the direction of France. Furthermore, the executioner could not reduce her heart to ashes. As for the men who had condemned her, they were well known...

- page 6 of The Retrial of Joan of Arc: The Evidence for her Vindication by Régine Pernoud (emphasis by bolding added by me)


Given the context, I'm not sure if she's talking about public opinion at the time or personally making an assertion when she says the sentence that I bolded. On the next page when she's talking about the three main people responsible for Joan's death, she writes "God's hand had fallen on them" before describing the circumstances under which two died and mentioning that the third contracted leprosy. Given that, it does seem plausible that the part about the executioner not being able to burn her heart is either a description of what the general public believed at the time or Pernoud uncritically accepting the cleric's claim because of her own religious beliefs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
Jeanne d'Arc was burned at the stake in 1431. She was 'retried' in 1455/56, when the Church decided she was to be rehabilitated. This is the time from which all the miraculous accounts come, including the assertion that her heart wouldn't burn. It's no coincidence that once it was determined that she was to be a martyr instead of a heretic, miracles were suddenly fresh in memories.

Also, the cleric who made the claim about her heart not burning soon adding another - of a white dove supposedly leaping from her body up through the flames and flying away.

"Fly, Jeanne, fly!"

So to make sure I understand correctly, it sounds like you're saying either that the only account of her heart not burning is from the cleric in question or that all the accounts of that come from people who were on her side during the rehabilitation trial. Am I correct in thinking you're saying one of those things? If so, which one are you saying? And if there were other accounts claiming her heart wouldn't burn, do you know how many other accounts there were, how many of them came from people who were at the execution, or if rumors of her heart not burning had spread around in the time between her burning and the rehabilitation trial?
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:12 PM
 
27 posts, read 3,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
Well, there is the case of the Buddhist monk who burned himself to death to protest the regime of Ngo Dinh Diem during the Vietnam War. His body was also burned twice but the heart remains today as a relic in a pagoda as a symbol of compassion.

A crematorium can completely consume most of human body but the methods that these people used probably didn't reach anywhere near the temperature of a professional method.

The heart is well protected deep in the chest cavity, has a lot of moisture in it and is made of firm flesh. It goes without saying that it wouldn't present in a normal condition, obviously, and might be a piece of charred flesh.

So there are those things to considered.

Don't mistake the symbolism of what this may mean to believers with the factual possibilities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích..._and_symbolism

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that after burning Joan's body twice, the executioner then tried a third time to burn the heart and entrails - which were the only thing left at that point - and still couldn't burn them. Could those things still be hard to burn after the rest of the body is gone? Or am I misunderstanding what happened or allegedly happened in Joan's case?
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Old 06-15-2020, 05:57 AM
 
27 posts, read 3,998 times
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Okay, I asked someone about it on reddit's Ask A Historian section.


https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistoria...of_arcs_heart/
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Old Yesterday, 01:48 PM
 
3 posts, read 249 times
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Hello
Joan of Arc herself and her death in particular is something full of mysteries. I've read a lot of scientific researches about her life and all scientists tell that there are many more mysteries than historic facts. I think, considering the fire's temperature, that her heart was not completely burning. And more - I actually don't think that a human's body can be burn completely without a special furnace. One of the medievalists said that medieval human's thinking was figurative, and their perception was emotional. Therefore, under the guise of facts in historical documents, they could well record rumors and exaggerations that we are now interpreting literally.
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Old Today, 12:36 PM
 
785 posts, read 902,848 times
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There were some reports after her death of some woman who may have been her, As one of her brothers met this woman, and never denounced her.You have to Google this.I too have heard the heart story, and that it was however thrown into the river.We know St.Thomas More's head(chancellor to Herny the Eigth) was taken aware under darkness by his daughter Meg and her husband William Roper. Think it lies in the family's burial tomb.blessed Margaret Plantagenet Pole was buried with her head in St.peter Ad Vincula's chapel at the Tower of London. She was a relative of Henry the Eight's and her husband, George Duke of Clarence was drowned in a butt of malmsey wine.She's considered the last of the platagenet s former rulers of england.
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