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Forgive the pedantry, but I think it might be more proper to say that Greek and Sanskrit have a common ancestor rather than a lineal relationship.
That said, the word 'rice' does seem to be Indo-European in origin with Sanskrit being the earliest attested use of the word. Historical and archaeological evidence shows that the trade of the grain itself as well as cultivation, where possible, spread westward from south Asia after the conquests of Alexander the Great as his eastward movements opened trade routes across southwest Asia into Europe.
Along with this movement of rice, its name, in its cognate forms, spread to the west, first arriving in central Asia and the Middle East, before shortly appearing in Greece and southern Italy whence it gradually spread northward into Europe, primarily by trade rather than cultivation.
Though the word has its origins in Indo-European language, it is possible that the Greeks adopted the word from the Arabic borrowing.
I'll go with that. There's probably a tree chart out there that shows that you're right.
This seems correct. I wondered if there might be a reconstructed proto-Indo-European root for "rice," but a brief search did not turn one up.
I think 2x3x29x41's info below may explain why. It is entirely likely that the Indo-Aryans, an Indic proto-Sanskrit speaking people who migrated westward from the north Caucasus region into the Indus and Ganges valleys and points south would have discovered rice being cultivated by the indigenous Dravidian peoples of South India and borrowed the word from them.
This makes sense since if there were an I-E root word, it would be evidence of rice cultivation in the north Black Sea/Caucasus region which is highly unlikely given the climate in period there and the lack of evidence of rice in the archaeological record of the region. The Proto-Indo-Europeans who lived in this area north of the Black Sea east to the Caspian, designated the Yamnaya culture, were primarily nomadic herders but also cultivated some grains, mainly barley and wheat I believe, but not rice which was domesticated far to the east.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41
It appears that many words for 'rice' derive from arisi, the Tamil word for 'rice'. Tamil is a Dravidian language. It became the loan-word brisi in Old Persian (an Indo-European tongue) and continued west. It passed through Greek, Latin, Italian and French in the past before finally arriving in English as rice. Presumably, it left an imprint in Arabic as well - Arabia, after all, lies between Persia (Iran) and Greece.
Yes, "genetically related" is a term used in linguistics to refer to languages that are descended from a common ancestor. English, Italian and Russian are genetically related--they have a common Indo-European ancestor--but English and Vietnamese are not.
It is entirely likely that the Indo-Aryans, an Indic proto-Sanskrit speaking people who migrated westward from the north Caucasus region into the Indus and Ganges valleys and points south would have discovered rice being cultivated by the indigenous Dravidian peoples of South India and borrowed the word from them.
The root of "rice" likely doesn't refer to a particular cultivar, but more the idea of the seeds of grain plants - possibly - those grown in wet conditions. "Corn" is a similar more open word. When you have "corned beef," the yellow kernels of the corn plant are not involved. The "corn" appellation come from the coarse granules of salt used in curing it. "Grain" itself is less about plants than physical properties - "grain" of sand, etc.
Within local cultures, I suspect that various inflections or other distinguishing sounds were used to differentiate. Rice from a particularly tasty plant might have been called ah-rooze, rather than just the generic ruzz or whatever. What survived linguistically was part crap shot, part based upon dominant culture.
An obvious source of standardization of certain words across Semitic, I-E, and some of the idiosyncratic early Greek dialects would be such trading centers as Petra, where everyone needed to have common understanding of basic trading commodities and values. Likely the easiest or most popular words won out. Saying rize is a lot easier that saying shinkafa.
Dang it. Now you have me wondering if the real meaning of a talented man is one who has many "talents" and is rich, and not necessarily smart.
The root of "rice" likely doesn't refer to a particular cultivar, but more the idea of the seeds of grain plants - possibly - those grown in wet conditions. "Corn" is a similar more open word. When you have "corned beef," the yellow kernels of the corn plant are not involved. The "corn" appellation come from the coarse granules of salt used in curing it. "Grain" itself is less about plants than physical properties - "grain" of sand, etc.
Within local cultures, I suspect that various inflections or other distinguishing sounds were used to differentiate. Rice from a particularly tasty plant might have been called ah-rooze, rather than just the generic ruzz or whatever. What survived linguistically was part crap shot, part based upon dominant culture.
An obvious source of standardization of certain words across Semitic, I-E, and some of the idiosyncratic early Greek dialects would be such trading centers as Petra, where everyone needed to have common understanding of basic trading commodities and values. Likely the easiest or most popular words won out. Saying rize is a lot easier that saying shinkafa.
Dang it. Now you have me wondering if the real meaning of a talented man is one who has many "talents" and is rich, and not necessarily smart.
Very interesting... the current form in Portuguese, "arroz", sounds very similar to the Tamil word "arisi"
bro "arroz" is literally the Arabic word for rice but written in English letters...we know the source of many of Spanish and Portuguese word origins such as rice or orangies coming from Arabs because there was a pseudo-Arabian empire where Portugues, Spain and even parts of Italy are now these days.
and things like rice were planted there which actually made it accessible in a major way to the rest of Europe. the way people here are trying to sidestep middle eastern influence is just weird. the whole "it's taken from a Tamil word" it's "Sanskrit word" is bs, and the proof is that people are using different south Asian words that end up very different from the source but what we do know is that the direct influence for cotton, sugar and yes rice in Europe comes from the middle east, and you got the Arabian merchants, the 800-year empire in southern Europe and the crusades for that influence.
and just to add a little spice on top (pun intended you also gotta thank the Arabs for dried pasta that lasts long as there are detailed records of them being the first to make dried pasta (not pasta) so they can take across long distances in the desert and it wasn't from china.
but yes as a root word, it was probably influenced by one of the many languages in southern Asia but it's not the connection people are bending backward to make lol
I suspect that the folks that first had it as a reliable crop named it and the name serves as the root of whatever others called it. It may have been domesticated in more than one place so multiple root names. The common rice we know seems to be from China, but other rice varieties came from different places with other names. The Indians harvested wild rice and it is originally a form of grass. Many, if not most, cultures might recognize it and the names might have a pattern. The plant might have one name and the product another which would further confuse things.
I suspect that the folks that first had it as a reliable crop named it and the name serves as the root of whatever others called it. It may have been domesticated in more than one place so multiple root names. The common rice we know seems to be from China, but other rice varieties came from different places with other names. The Indians harvested wild rice and it is originally a form of grass. Many, if not most, cultures might recognize it and the names might have a pattern. The plant might have one name and the product another which would further confuse things.
Very interesting... the current form in Portuguese, "arroz", sounds very similar to the Tamil word "arisi"
I would imagine almost any word for rice in Portugese, Spanish, French and Italian would come directly from Latin, "oryza" for rice.
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you also gotta thank the Arabs for dried pasta that lasts long as there are detailed records of them being the first to make dried pasta (not pasta) so they can take across long distances in the desert and it wasn't from china.
