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Old 10-19-2020, 07:43 AM
 
4,088 posts, read 2,400,537 times
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While the news was slow, at least in the early Republic, there was a lot of it. By 1800, 4,971 in the 1800 census, Alexandria VA for example had the following papers: the Alexandria Times; the Alexandria Advertiser, the Colombia Mirror, the Virginia Gazette and Alexandria Advertiser, the Alexandria Advertiser and Commercial Intelligencer, the Virginia Journal and Alexandria Advertiser - now the Alexandria Gazette. Yes, the names seem redundant, it was the practice back then. Most were daily papers. Literacy - reading- is estimated at about 70%; writing was taught separately and was a lower percentage; it was thought more important to be able to read the Bible.

Last edited by webster; 10-19-2020 at 07:56 AM..
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:00 AM
 
6,396 posts, read 3,875,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Politics has always been an ugly game, the only thing that has usually been offlimits is a politicans family but even that is becoming fair game, particularly if they are an adult.
It's always seemed a bit strange to me that politicians want to use their families as pawns-- "look, I have a pretty wife and cute kids, you should elect me!"-- but suddenly say families shouldn't have anything to do with politics once anything negative comes out...
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:37 AM
 
14,322 posts, read 14,121,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
In modern history, the Gary Hart scandal probably made the personal sexual lives of Presidents and Presidential candidates fair game.

<<Those of us who had been at the center of his Senate work and presidential campaign teams were now tumbling along with him and his family in the center of a political and media centrifuge -- one which had no precedent, which we could not control, and which ultimately spit all of us out unceremoniously.>>

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/opini...son/index.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...set-up/570802/
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
In modern history, the Gary Hart scandal probably made the personal sexual lives of Presidents and Presidential candidates fair game. As noted in the following discussions, the Watergate scandal greatily changed the media's perception of its role in investigating Presidential misbehavior.

<<Those of us who had been at the center of his Senate work and presidential campaign teams were now tumbling along with him and his family in the center of a political and media centrifuge -- one which had no precedent, which we could not control, and which ultimately spit all of us out unceremoniously.>>

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/opini...son/index.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...set-up/570802/

The Clinton Lewinsky scandal was a matter of public interest because it involved a White House intern. I've been told by a federal labor relations officer that any federal employee who had engaged in such an activity would have been terminated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinto...winsky_scandal

I'm glad both of you brought up the Gary Hart matter.

I, too, would really date this as the event that began changing the way the media handled sex scandals with political candidates. Gary Hart behaved in a very foolish way during the 1984 presidential race. Hart was seeking the democratic nomination for the presidency (which he lost to Walter Mondale). He actually invited the media to follow him around to report on him acting as though he had nothing to hide. While they were doing this he engaged in a relationship with Donna Rice. Hart's behavior though was just a little too blatant and the media blew the whistle on it. Hart went from being the frontrunner for the nomination to crashing and burning.

Its complicated though. Many in the media felt that what made the difference in this case was not the affair, but the very public way that Hart chose to carry on. Many journalists still felt that a privately conducted affair should not be reported on. In 1996, Bob Dole ran for President against Bill Clinton. It was understood that Dole had carried on an affair in Washington, D.C. with a woman for many years. The Washington Post debated whether to publish details of this affair, but chose not to do so. The thinking was that since the whole thing was very private that it had no bearing on Dole's political career. This decision was later criticized by some.

However, Bill Clinton's relationship with Monica Lewinsky was probably the end of any expectation of privacy that a presidential candidate might have still expected. I would say there is nothing a presidential candidate can do anymore that might be reasonably considered "off-limits" to the news media. Whether or not that is a good thing, I cannot say. I do think sometimes that every person is entitled to a certain zone of privacy. I'm less certain where that begins and ends.
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,522,518 times
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Since the beginning of the nation.
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Old 10-19-2020, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,201,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
In Europe, Do Europeans give a whit if one of their married leaders is having an affair while in office?
There are 44 different countries in Europe with well more than 44 different cultures that have many shared, but also many differening values. Furthermore, these individual cultures are comprised of individuals with their own idiosyncratic opinions on the importance and relevance of the personal lives of their leaders.

Plenty of Americans don't give a whit about the personal lives of their leaders, while others are obsessive about it. I can only assume that Europeans being humans exhibit a similar diversity of opinion.

Whether the political parties in various countries make an effort to investigate the personal lives of politicians for some political maneuvering or gain, is another story.
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Old 10-19-2020, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,201,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K12144 View Post
It's always seemed a bit strange to me that politicians want to use their families as pawns-- "look, I have a pretty wife and cute kids, you should elect me!"-- but suddenly say families shouldn't have anything to do with politics once anything negative comes out...
We have a candidate for Senate whose every ad, just about, consists of him parading his cute, precocious daughters who sometimes have the bulk of the spoken lines in the ads.

It is one thing to show you are a responsible father who has raised presentable children, but quite another to rely on the appeal of your children in nearly every ad.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,982,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
We have a candidate for Senate whose every ad, just about, consists of him parading his cute, precocious daughters who sometimes have the bulk of the spoken lines in the ads.

It is one thing to show you are a responsible father who has raised presentable children, but quite another to rely on the appeal of your children in nearly every ad.
If you have such things, it is the product of intensive research into the likely voters and what appeals to them. For better or worse, some study concluded that campaigning behind his children would enhance that candidate's chances of election. Then the staffers had to persuade the candidate that this was the way to go. Then I suppose the candidate had to persuade his or her spouse that this was the way to go.

The kids probably didn't understand a thing and had a blast doing it.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:01 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,397 posts, read 6,764,988 times
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Well it isn’t Huntley Brinkley and Walter Cronkite any more when the personal lives of Presidents and other politicians was off limits. At some point the news media went into entertainment and gossip mode to keep the ratings up. There really isn’t a huge audience in dumbed down America anymore for straight up news. You have to jazz up the news with sex and scandal to people watching.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:22 PM
 
2,269 posts, read 1,559,100 times
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Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I thought I read, one time, that it was taboo to investigate a President's private/sex life, yes or no?

I just watched a PBS DVD on the Clinton Presidency, and it's hard to believe that the Republicans, at that time, would spend an inordinate amount of time, trying to prosecute Clinton for something that should have never have been brought up in the first place.

In Europe, Do Europeans give a whit if one of their married leaders is having an affair while in office?
I agree Clinton's investigation was purely unnecessary & wrong. He was doing a fine job for the country.

I know a few countries in So. America play very, very dirty in politics with curse words and invent scandals about opponents worse than here. And you thought MF-er words said by female politicians were bad. It would probably be the equivalent of what Justice Kavanaugh went through with the most outlandish allegations and stories with lots of holes.

Yes, we have escalated to new lows from both parties. Once you open the door, there's no turning back.
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Old 10-19-2020, 07:22 PM
 
16,365 posts, read 30,083,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I thought I read, one time, that it was taboo to investigate a President's private/sex life, yes or no?

I just watched a PBS DVD on the Clinton Presidency, and it's hard to believe that the Republicans, at that time, would spend an inordinate amount of time, trying to prosecute Clinton for something that should have never have been brought up in the first place.

I do not care about Bill Clinton having a relationship with a consenting adult. (Now with some of Epstein's underaged girls, we will soon find out.)

However, when a 50+ year old guy is having a sexual encounter with a subordinate at a workplace. That is different. I have seen corporate executives fired for a lot less. Last time I looked at the law, that was considered to be sexual harassment.

As for historical. it happened with a number of presidents including Andrew Jackson, Warren Harding whose wife tried to kill his mistress in the Oval Office, and a number of others

As for politicians who hated each other, it started in 1796 with Adams and Jefferson.
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