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Old 03-22-2021, 05:39 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
15,995 posts, read 10,559,374 times
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St Patrick's Day reminded me of my trip to Ireland last year as the pandemic was starting up. There was not much to do but walk around and look at historical sites. The one thing that caught me off guard a little in our visit was the ferocity of the enthusiasm to kill off other Irishmen during the Civil war of almost 100 years ago. The Irish have a long (and well deserved) animosity toward the English. Almost any Irishman in Dublin can tell you about the Easter Rising of 1916 even to where the English gun emplacements were and where the Irish Citizen's Army dug their trenches in St. Stephen's Green. The country now sees that event as we see Lexington and Concord and the Declaration of Independence rolled into one although there was opposition to those events at the time. The "Proclamation of the Republic" took place during the Easter Rising of 1916. The War of Independence took place 1919-1922 and the Civil War 1922-1923. The Battle of Dublin and the burning of the Four Courts Building and explosion of the Public records Office in June, 1922 started the civil war. Different factions of the IRA took opposing sides after working together in the War of Independence. The Irish Free State (created by the contested treaty) survived and remained in force until 1937 when it was replaced by "Ireland" under a new constitution and the nation cut ties with the British Commonwealth. I know little more than that except that Irish civil records going back to the Norman conquest were destroyed in the Records Office explosion, a constant pain if you are researching Irish history or ancestry.

During the trip we were mostly staying in County Kerry, where my family came from back in 1876, and spent a night at Ballyseede Castle, just outside of Tralee. It seemed a bucolic and harmless old manor house but the Ballyseedy Massacre took place just on the nearby roadside in March 1923. I won't go into the gory details but the link will explain what happened. ( https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/h...city-1.2462070 ) There were similar, if less gory, events across Ireland. Even the names of the opposing groups are confusing. The civil war came hot on the heels of the Irish War of Independence and included some of the same players so it runs together in a confusing way. The Treaty that followed the War of Independence resulted in the partition establishing Northern Ireland. The civil war was fought between those that supported the treaty and those that opposed it. This entire multi-stage episode of Irish independence was happening during WW-I, the Paris Peace Conference and Treaty of Versailles, the Spanish Flu pandemic, and the Russian Revolution. There is little wonder that it is not well known or understood and the British Government of the day was hoping it would stay that way.
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Old 03-22-2021, 05:57 PM
 
14,316 posts, read 14,121,591 times
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Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
St Patrick's Day reminded me of my trip to Ireland last year as the pandemic was starting up. There was not much to do but walk around and look at historical sites. The one thing that caught me off guard a little in our visit was the ferocity of the enthusiasm to kill off other Irishmen during the Civil war of almost 100 years ago. The Irish have a long (and well deserved) animosity toward the English. Almost any Irishman in Dublin can tell you about the Easter Rising of 1916 even to where the English gun emplacements were and where the Irish Citizen's Army dug their trenches in St. Stephen's Green. The country now sees that event as we see Lexington and Concord and the Declaration of Independence rolled into one although there was opposition to those events at the time. The "Proclamation of the Republic" took place during the Easter Rising of 1916. The War of Independence took place 1919-1922 and the Civil War 1922-1923. The Battle of Dublin and the burning of the Four Courts Building and explosion of the Public records Office in June, 1922 started the civil war. Different factions of the IRA took opposing sides after working together in the War of Independence. The Irish Free State (created by the contested treaty) survived and remained in force until 1937 when it was replaced by "Ireland" under a new constitution and the nation cut ties with the British Commonwealth. I know little more than that except that Irish civil records going back to the Norman conquest were destroyed in the Records Office explosion, a constant pain if you are researching Irish history or ancestry.

During the trip we were mostly staying in County Kerry, where my family came from back in 1876, and spent a night at Ballyseede Castle, just outside of Tralee. It seemed a bucolic and harmless old manor house but the Ballyseedy Massacre took place just on the nearby roadside in March 1923. I won't go into the gory details but the link will explain what happened. ( https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/h...city-1.2462070 ) There were similar, if less gory, events across Ireland. Even the names of the opposing groups are confusing. The civil war came hot on the heels of the Irish War of Independence and included some of the same players so it runs together in a confusing way. The Treaty that followed the War of Independence resulted in the partition establishing Northern Ireland. The civil war was fought between those that supported the treaty and those that opposed it. This entire multi-stage episode of Irish independence was happening during WW-I, the Paris Peace Conference and Treaty of Versailles, the Spanish Flu pandemic, and the Russian Revolution. There is little wonder that it is not well known or understood and the British Government of the day was hoping it would stay that way.
I've been to Ireland twice. Those who visit Ireland usually learn quickly that the Irish people are eager to talk about their history.

Perhaps, the best place to go to learn about the Irish War of Independence and the Irish Civil War is the Kilmainham Jail in Dublin. There's a great pub across the street too where you can have a beer or two as well called "The Patriot".

One thing that was rather shocking to me is that the courtyard of the prison was first used by the English to execute Irishmen who had participated in the Easter Uprising and than a few years later used to execute Irishmen who fought the Irish Civil War against the Irish Free State.

The General Post Office Building on O'Connell Street still has damage inflicted by British guns during the siege that took place during the Easter Uprising of 1916.

I can recommend some sources for anyone who wants to know more about this period:

1. The movie Michael Collins with Liam Neeson playing Collins.

2. The book Trinity by Leon Uris.

3. The book Redemption also by Leon Uris.

Another interesting thing to do is to go to Belfast and take the "political taxicab tour". They explain all about the conflict in North Ireland and bring it to life in a way books and media cannot do. The tour ends at "peace wall" in Belfast which is designed to separate Protestant and Catholic neighborhoods.
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Old 03-22-2021, 06:37 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
15,995 posts, read 10,559,374 times
Reputation: 31173
That's interesting because we got an ear full on the Easter Rising from a cab driver in Dublin who was from Belfast.
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