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How do we complain that we as a country are far off our ideals from our Founding Fathers when they were ironically genuine visionaries with flawed practices? How do we establish a wise and frugal Govt when our founding individuals were not always so frugal.
Thomas Jefferson was a bastion for Democratic-Republicanism and freedom. He championed his writing the Declaration of Independence
But he owned slaves, he died in enormous debt, he was extremely different from founder John Adams and if Washington was the real founder, he also had his imperfection moments undermining the freedom of the native people in various revolutionary battles.
These guys were extremely pro-separation of church and state, they also were not all frugal, they also weren’t all peaceful (see the duel Hamilton vs Burr),
And we say the Founders were ideals of better human characters? They had one thing right. We are but men.
How do we complain that we as a country are far off our ideals from our Founding Fathers when they were ironically genuine visionaries with flawed practices? How do we establish a wise and frugal Govt when our founding individuals were not always so frugal.
Thomas Jefferson was a bastion for Democratic-Republicanism and freedom. He championed his writing the Declaration of Independence
But he owned slaves, he died in enormous debt, he was extremely different from founder John Adams and if Washington was the real founder, he also had his imperfection moments undermining the freedom of the native people in various revolutionary battles.
These guys were extremely pro-separation of church and state, they also were not all frugal, they also weren’t all peaceful (see the duel Hamilton vs Burr),
And we say the Founders were ideals of better human characters? They had one thing right. We are but men.
No one says the founding fathers were ideals of better human characters, but of better human existence - the ability to define a "more perfect union" based on the laws of, not one man, be it a king or dictator, but of mankind based on inalienable rights. All of them had flaws - Washington, Adams, Franklin, etc., but you have to look at the collective sum of the founding fathers, as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were collective works based on careful compromises between all these individuals - focusing on the strengths and deminising there weaknesses as individuals. .
Indeed they were but men. We also must not judge them to the standards of today (i.e. slavery, duels, etc.). Jefferson was raised into that institution of slavery as a southern landowner, although in his defense he divested of most of his slaves during his later life and, although silent on the issue of slavery, his private writing indicated that he believed the practice should ended via gradual emancipation. In regards to his debt, much of it was inherited. It certainly troubled him in his later years that he was not able to leave an estate to his children.
They were all products of their time. Remember that men like Jefferson and Washington never even visited a non-slave owning colony until the Revolutionary period. Slavery in England was reintroduced as recently as the reign of Edward VI and was only abolished in Scotland in 1775 - colliers belonged to the coal mine owners - a simplification, but you get the idea.
The problem with owning slaves in VA was that even Washington could not figure out how to free them under existing law (his slaves vs. the dower slaves) and those that did, found the process took decades, even after they figured out how the disabled and elderly would be cared for. On the flip side, is how slaves were treated. Jefferson's views hardened over time. His mentor, (Lt.) Governor Fauquier did not free his slaves upon his death, but did include the caveat that they would not be sold to anyone they did not approve of. Washington was truly horrified at Jefferson's 4% return rule on the sale of slaves since until Robert E. Lee came into the Custis family circle, Washington and his heirs refused to break up slave families.
They were all products of their time. Remember that men like Jefferson and Washington never even visited a non-slave owning colony until the Revolutionary period. Slavery in England was reintroduced as recently as the reign of Edward VI and was only abolished in Scotland in 1775 - colliers belonged to the coal mine owners - a simplification, but you get the idea.
The problem with owning slaves in VA was that even Washington could not figure out how to free them under existing law (his slaves vs. the dower slaves) and those that did, found the process took decades, even after they figured out how the disabled and elderly would be cared for. On the flip side, is how slaves were treated. Jefferson's views hardened over time. His mentor, (Lt.) Governor Fauquier did not free his slaves upon his death, but did include the caveat that they would not be sold to anyone they did not approve of. Washington was truly horrified at Jefferson's 4% return rule on the sale of slaves since until Robert E. Lee came into the Custis family circle, Washington and his heirs refused to break up slave families.
As for the Declaration of Independence, a lot of it Jefferson "borrowed" to put it nicely, from the VA Declaration of Rights authored by George Mason.
LOL! I agree with most of your post...but I have to say, even though I'm not a big fan of TJ, Franklin was definitely more "flawed."
To the OP - imo, that's the problem with history and how it is recorded and taught. We all tend to look at these people as almost god-like. We forget about the human side of their lives and the lives of everyday people in those times.
Sometimes it helps to dig a little deeper in research of these men and the times. There are so many resources out there.
Ask a guide at Monticello about "The Coward of Carter's Mountain" and you will get a look of disgust and distain. Jefferson was shy, almost painfully so, spoke with a lisp, and slouched and a coward in battle (actually he fled) ... not important, but helps with the visualization. In the end, even Washington had had enough and stopped speaking and writing to him. Franklin was a philanderer, but did not sell his children off as slaves. Monticello has taken 200 years to admit he fathered children with Sally Hemings who was about 13 to 15 when their relationship started; it may take another 200 for the DNA results of other descendants.
All of the Virginians were grasping at straws to make a living by the time of the Revolution. Tobacco strips the land of almost everything. At Mt. Vernon, some of the land was so bad, trees would not grow.
How do we complain that we as a country are far off our ideals from our Founding Fathers when they were ironically genuine visionaries with flawed practices? How do we establish a wise and frugal Govt when our founding individuals were not always so frugal.
Thomas Jefferson was a bastion for Democratic-Republicanism and freedom. He championed his writing the Declaration of Independence
But he owned slaves, he died in enormous debt, he was extremely different from founder John Adams and if Washington was the real founder, he also had his imperfection moments undermining the freedom of the native people in various revolutionary battles.
These guys were extremely pro-separation of church and state, they also were not all frugal, they also weren’t all peaceful (see the duel Hamilton vs Burr),
And we say the Founders were ideals of better human characters? They had one thing right. We are but men.
I'm having a real problem with your logic, especially the implication that a "great" man should be wealthy.
The FF were a much more intellectual group of thinkers & leaders, unlike the current crop of deviously corrupt morons that is now controlling the country.
The debates in the colonies, states and at the national level were at an intellectual level not seen since. That said, the Founders were as guilty of corruption as it gets - though at that time it was not seen as such. When it was decided that the nation's capital would be on the Potomac, Washington immediately bought land - even though he was cash broke. Hamilton's economic plan benefited his political supporters. Franklin as Postmaster General in 1775 appointed his son in law as comptroller. In the late 1700's corporations were a new idea; corporations had to be approved on an individual basis in state legislatures creating a good old boy system. If one is inclined to go to their state library and look up the individual bills passed from the 1790's to the 1850's, they will find most are for individuals: divorce, form a corporation, debt relief, financial assistance. Today, that might be seen as corruption, back then it wasn't.
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