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Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 13 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,575,283 times
Reputation: 2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
For the people of that era it was not immoral, but God ordained practice since the first writing of the Bible. Add to that that people had never seen a black person before and they didn't know what to think of the person or their abilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo
Let me remind you that Moors controlled Northern Africa and Portugal/Spain before 1492 for several centuries
and that Greeks used to go to study egyptian libraries before Jesus was born.
Before anybody says that there were no black people in Egypt,
Found a book with an introduction of their soldiering in Ancient Egypt. And of course King Solomon was a black man ...
However, the people that arrived here in the 1500s came from Europe.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 13 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,575,283 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunGrins
If we were able to look back flawlessly into our family trees, we would see that we are descended from slaves and slaveowners at some point. We would see that slavery is practically a human trait, unique in the animal world. We would also learn that there are huge differences and variations in how the "peculiar institution" was devised and administered through the ages. It was not peculiar at all. It is not a dead practice but continues today in certain places.
In our case, it was hereditary enslavement based on race and the southern states had about four million slaves in 1861 at the start of the Civil War. The final chapters in 1865 and in the following decades were possibly the worst-case scenario of all imaginable outcomes. It is all the horrific train wreck in our history that we saw coming but could not stop and now we cannot take our eyes off of it. Sadly, we let it define us and our relationships between the races.
Just because the government does that, doesn't mean we have to ... just saying.
First, keep in mind that history isn't simply a fixed and immobile calendar of events stretching back to about 4000 BC.
History is a social science, and as such, cannot be monolithic and unchanging: history is our understanding of the past. As we uncover and process more information from prior times, our understanding of the past changes. People, specifically historians but also others, are free to debate the different hypotheses drawn by different scholars working in the field, until a consensus is reached, or until several different schools of thought arise concerning historical events. That's how history works.
From what I've read, there are some issues raised by professional historians with some points of historical accuracy in the 1619 Project. I have no doubt that parts of the 1619 project are pushing an agenda. I don't believe that this necessarily negates the entire project, but it does promote discussion.
Dinesh D'souza simply is serving up rewarmed conservative non-factual talking points to feed a target audience. If you seek a discussion about American history, please ignore him.
If you do seek better information about the origins of slavery in America, I highly recommend American Slavery, American Freedom by Edmund S Morgan.
I'm not going to ignore anyone. Including people I don't want to hear. Because, as you said, it does promote discussion, even if it is pushing an agenda.
I'm not going to ignore anyone. Including people I don't want to hear. Because, as you said, it does promote discussion, even if it is pushing an agenda.
I'm not going to ignore anyone. Including people I don't want to hear. Because, as you said, it does promote discussion, even if it is pushing an agenda.
I'm not going to ignore anyone. Including people I don't want to hear. Because, as you said, it does promote discussion, even if it is pushing an agenda.
"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." George Orwell - 1984
One must realize that people with political agendas encroach upon the social science of history in order to pursue their own goals. One must learn to recognize and reject such attempts, not consider them as legitimate avenues of inquiry.
If we were able to look back flawlessly into our family trees, we would see that we are descended from slaves and slaveowners at some point. We would see that slavery is practically a human trait, unique in the animal world. We would also learn that there are huge differences and variations in how the "peculiar institution" was devised and administered through the ages. It was not peculiar at all. It is not a dead practice but continues today in certain places.
In our case, it was hereditary enslavement based on race and the southern states had about four million slaves in 1861 at the start of the Civil War. The final chapters in 1865 and in the following decades were possibly the worst-case scenario of all imaginable outcomes. It is all the horrific train wreck in our history that we saw coming but could not stop and now we cannot take our eyes off of it. Sadly, we let it define us and our relationships between the races.
So true! In everyone's ancestry, if they go back far enough, they were slaves or very close to being slaves. Note: People think of the English as noble aristocrats and yet in the Middle Ages they were serfs. In the 18th century Industrial Revolution, the people were forced to work in dangerous mills and "paid" practically nothing. Sure, a few were rich aristocrats but that's a false stereotype of the English. Most English people were oppressed.
Quote:
The final chapters in 1865 and in the following decades were possibly the worst-case scenario of all imaginable outcomes. It is all the horrific train wreck in our history that we saw coming but could not stop and now we cannot take our eyes off of it. Sadly, we let it define us and our relationships between the races.
And so the truth should be taught BUT teach All The Truth about all of us. If only one group is selected, then the other groups start to feel like they are being punished even when they are not. They feel blamed.
What happened in this country re slavery must be taught. It was taught in school to us (probably not as much as it should have been). The most effective ways were by reading books like Black Like Me and then discussing them in class. If you read a book, you get right inside the person's mind and you see how it feels to be them. Mostly I would teach about race and slavery in high school but I would not shove it down people's throats or pit one race or group against another.
Read, discuss, learn. Slavery has existed forever but this county endured a tragic episode that we can learn from. Do not force it or you will divide us again. Teach it gently.
Last edited by in_newengland; 01-15-2022 at 02:07 PM..
This is the History forum, the honesty referred to here is historical honesty based on historical primary sources.
Makes no difference to my point. Pointing out historical honesty with the wrong intent (and acknowledging that what is wrong or right is subjective) is what I take issue with. You can teach history without demonizing others.
So true! In everyone's ancestry, if they go back far enough, they were slaves or very close to being slaves.
The Jewish people, for example, in Egypt (or maybe Babylonia if you believe my Rabbi).
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
Note: People think of the English as noble aristocrats and yet in the Middle Ages they were serfs. In the 18th century Industrial Revolution, the people were forced to work in dangerous mills and "paid" practically nothing. Sure, a few were rich aristocrats but that's a false stereotype of the English. Most English people were oppressed.
Don't forget "wage slaves" in the U.S. such as the workers at the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, many of whom perished in a notorious fire in the early 20th Century, or the miners made famous by Joe Hill's songs. Song starts at about 0:58 but the speech the beginning is hilarious.
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