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Acting to the public. The CIA with the blessing of JFK had already a plan to overthrow the government without starting WW 3 and put a puppet pro-American government. The other side were doing the same thing. It's funny to me how civilians act shocked. This was going around the world by both sides. We overthrew Iran and other governments (still do) and the other side the same.
He was only in office two months and consulted with Eisenhower. It is in the Air Force article. You people spend too much time on politics with this administration and that one. There is a lot more continuity in policy than people think.
He was only in office two months and consulted with Eisenhower. It is in the Air Force article. You people spend too much time on politics with this administration and that one. There is a lot more continuity in policy than people think.
It could be in the front page of the NYT for I care. That is not how our foreign policy and the people in charge of our defense operates (Deep State). Presidents and President elect get daily briefings after they get elected. That's why they have top security clearance and full access which JKF had moment he was elected on Nov/8/1960. That's over 5 months of getting daily briefings before the actual attack. JFK was a Yale graduated and so were his cabinet of Ivy league diplomats from Harvard like McNamara and Rusk and he doesn't sign on a war action and his people fully behind it without knowing the details and consequences. Add that JFK was and his family were close friends and allies with Joseph McCarthy anti-communism hard doctrine when he was in the Senate in the 50's before he came to the WH so JFK wasn't new at this or that they duped him. The President gets the last word.
These newspapers like Air Force Times and Navy Times like the regular press mostly are an arm of the Pentagon and you have to take things with skepticism and suspicion. I dealt with them for over 40 years.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 05-25-2021 at 05:43 PM..
The more you read about this operation and history repeats itself, the more suspicion you have and the more questions for our government. They play the public like a flute to get high support for their foreign policy and when the public figures it out they accomplished their goals and move on while the public has a short memory span. They did it again for Desert Shield and setting up the all out war in the Middle East and Afghanistan that we are still in for 19 years.
This is not an amateur country, We have a long successful history in how to overthrow governments and it's a well out plan that every angle it's covered and they have a plan B for every reaction and you know it's made by geniuses. This Bay of Pigs looks like it was executed by the Mexican Drug Cartel to take over a territory against another drug cartel and not to take over the whole country and run the government.
I mean, you drop 1,400 mercenaries on a beach with NO air cover and nothing and pretend they will destroy the well equipped Cuban Army with Soviet weapons that they have all the advantages on the air and ground and sea because it's their country and pretend they will get to Havana and take out the police and population and take over the government and that Cubans will accept these invaders and what is more insulting is the Soviet Union wouldn't figured it out that they are a U.S. backed puppet government and they will be o.k. with that.
Usually when the U.S. wants to overthrow the government, they have sleeper cells inside their country and double agents inside the government and know who they have to kill in the top government and have Cuban politicians who the people will accept ready to take over the government once the military is neutralized. I'm just summarizing, the plan is a lot deeper and many moving parts from military and civilian stand point and complicated than just dropping 1,400 mercenaries 100 miles from Havana the heart of Cuban's defense and stronghold without air cover and tell them "good luck , see ya in Havana in front of the "El Capitolio" (National Capitol Building) ready to pass new legislation. This is like a bad version of Scarface when Sosa sends his militia to kill Tony Montana in Florida.
The CIA and government played the public like a flute and they did it again in our lifetime and most of the public doesn't see it or doesn't care.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 05-25-2021 at 07:26 PM..
The battle that we didn’t see and that explains a lot is the battle between JFK and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. If Kennedy was a Warhawk then the Joint Chiefs were Mad Dogs obsessed with using military force for any problems that came up. Kennedy was shocked at the aggressive independence that they claimed for themselves. They were used to (General) Eisenhower as President and along comes a lowly PT boat skipper who they dismissed out of hand. When Kennedy came into office the field commanders were authorized to use nuclear strikes without Presidential authorization— much to his dismay. He certainly wanted Castro gone but not with a huge and obvious US intervention. Kennedy had doubts about the Bay of Pigs operation— it had been in the works for a year and seemed ill conceived and ill prepared. He could see how the plan would fail and our military would be dragged into the mess. The CIA and Joint Chiefs were okay with that if needed — Kennedy was not. He told the exiles that they would be on their own without US military involvement and asked them if they still wanted to move forward with the invasion. They said they did, either out of macho bravado or stupidly or because they figured Kennedy would relent or be forced to provide support. The invasion beachhead site was hastily moved by the CIA about 40 miles west from a mountainous area to the swampy Bay of Pigs due to the location of a better airstrip. The Cubans knew when the invasion would come because the exiles blabbed about it in Miami. The CIA’s B-26 bombers attacked Cuban airstrips two days before the invasion but failed to cripple the Cuban air forces. The invasion floundered on the reefs and the swamps of the Bay of Pigs area. The local militia sounded the alarm before the exiles ever left their ships. The Cuban Air Force attacked and disabled the one ship carrying medical supplies. The invasion forces could not communicate because their radios were wet. It was a chaotic mess. The US military did not send help. Claiming that the US was not involved was laughable.
That doesn't make any sense. You say "they were used to (General) Eisenhower as President" when Eisenhower was less of a war hawk than JFK. Eisenhower ended the Korean War and slashed defense spending by 27% and spoke of the dangers of the big military complex that sadly it's on steroids today . JFK raised Defense spending by $8 billion (1961 is a lot) constituting most of his Budget increase. That's what he ran on in 1960. He ran as the more tougher hawkish versus the Eisenhower outgoing administration because he was very young and inexperienced and he had to show that he wasn't just a pretty born Yale face with a silver spoon in his mouth (he was, remember he wasn't Joseph Sr. choice to be President, it was his older brother but that's another topic) and that he was tough on communism. That's why he picked LBJ on the ticket, another war hawk. I think that got JFK to many mistakes that Nikita took advantage.
Why do you think the Soviets put missiles in Cuba in the first place? That fell out of the sky?
Quote:
When Kennedy came into office the field commanders were authorized to use nuclear strikes without Presidential authorization
That's not correct. A field commander is a major (0-4) , lieutenant colonel (0-5), or a colonel (0-6) in the Army, Air Force and Marines and Captain (0-6) Commander (0-5) or lieutenant Commander (0-4) in the Navy. None of those are authorized to use nuclear strikes ever. You need the codes. Nobody in uniform has the codes.
Not even a Fleet Admiral or 5 Star General ( 0-11) that doesn't exist today was ever allowed to use nuclear strikes against the President or over him. Only the President can authorize and it goes to a protocol from the President to the chain of command down to only military personnel that has to carry the President's order and that would be the field's officers that take their direct orders from the Generals and Admirals and they take their orders from the Pentagon and the Pentagon takes it from the President.
You never served have you? The Chain of Command is very sacred in the military and they can put you in prison just for violating the chain of Command or death if you violate the orders from the Chain of Command during war or combat. That's one of the thing they train you in Boot Camp/Basic Training.
About the invasion, again, it was a bad plan before they got up that morning and was only made to fail for the CIA play the public like a flute. They have done it many times.
Close your eyes. You think the 1,400 mercenaries would land on a beach with NO air support or no Naval support and play Rambo and destroy the whole Cuban Army who outnumbered them and had the air, land and sea advantage? Then go all the way to Havana and take on the police and government?
Let's pretend this is the A TEAM, the NAVY SEALS, the best warriors on the planet and they took out the whole Cuban Army with just 1,400 people (they would be very lucky if 1/3 of that made it out of the beach) and are heading to the Capitol to kill or arrest Castro and most of in the Cuban government. How long you think it would have taken the Soviets to figured what was going on and go mop the floor before they get to Havana? all it was needed was Castro call SOS and the Soviets would have been there mopping the floor. The plan was so weak that the Cuban Army Not the Soviets defeated them easily like shooting fish in a barrel.
JFK wasn't going to get involved directly and risk losing NATO and the European Alliance, Cuba wasn't worth it.. So how would these 1,400 mercenaries on their own would have taken the Cuban Army and then the Soviets (if Fidel folded) and take over the government when most of them would have been dead or captured? You think they could hold the country and the government with 400 mercenaries if they were that lucky coming out of the beach?
is that a plan? not even the Mexican Cartel would take on the Cuban Army in Cuba let alone the Soviets and t and they are crazy people but not that crazy.
The government never told the truth and played the public like a flute. It's interested that after that and a close and very divided election in 1960, JFK approval was over 83% and support of taking out Cuba grew by 55% from the lower 5%. Where have we seen this in current times?
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 05-26-2021 at 02:16 AM..
I don’t care what you think should have happened or what was proper military planning or the best way to invade another country with amateur pretend soldiers. What actually happened was a fiasco. Everyone recognizes that. Kennedy had no intention of investing US military resources or showing our hand in the invasion. He made that clear to the exiles and it was equally clear to the Joint Chiefs. Take it up with the CIA. They should have canceled or postponed the whole thing. Allen Dulles was a dedicated interventionist and was a civilian director of the CIA, not military, and he had various resources at his disposal. He had already masterminded coups in Central America and in Iran. The several B-26 bombers that attacked Cuban air bases were the CIA’s planes flown by exiles. They were disguised as Cuban Air Force planes and when they tried to support the invasion force they were fired on by the exiles on the ground. One would think that they would have provided some way to identify friendly planes if they expected air support. Dulles was trying to assassinate Castro and generate popular uprisings. Kennedy wanted Castro gone so when Dulles and the “experts” said it would work and the exiles said they were willing to go, he relied on their assurances and didn’t stop it. He admitted later that he was overly trusting and hoodwinked.
You ever heard the buck stops here? JFK should have canceled it, he is the President not the CIA.
Military advisers were skeptical of its potential for success but JFK (the brothers) went along with it. Any real military field commander that knows combat especially Amphibious warfare would know that would have been a failure and potentially start WW 3.
How long JFK thought the Soviets would figured it out and react about this invasion? I doubt JFK was duped and I refuse to believe the government and CIA has ever been openly truthful in what happened and something smells.
How long JFK thought the Soviets would figured it out and react about this invasion?
How long? At least several days before it happened. Maybe more. They broadcast reports on the planned invasion on Radio Moscow several days before it took place. The CIA knew that it not only had been leaked but was openly talked about by the exiles in Miami beforehand. Kennedy was not convinced the invasion would work but was willing to risk it to get rid of Fidel. Getting rid of Castro by any means was okay with him. There were dozens of quirky and outlandish CIA plots to kill Castro during this period. The plots supposedly continued up into the Clinton era. One count from Cuban security says there were 638 attempts on Castro's life.
Dulles and his close associates were ousted from the CIA about six months after the BoP fiasco. At the same time the Bay of Pigs mess was taking place and filtering through the media there was an attempted coup in France against De Gaulle over the war in Algeria and negotiations for independence. There was speculation that Dulles' CIA fingerprints were mixed up in that as well. (This was the day after the Bay of Pigs invasion failed but had been planned for some time.) The CIA was also involved in the assassination of Rafael Trujillo, ten-year President of the Dominican Republic, in May of 1961. It seemed like things were getting too sloppy and coming too fast in the CIA. Even if not involved the "agency" was becoming an easy and messy target for blame.
Dulles was behind the coup in Iran that put the Shah in power in 1953. The US fully confessed to the deed and that is still is a sore spot. Add to that the curious fact that Teddy Roosevelt's grandson, Kermit, was a senior CIA operative and heavily engaged in the coup in Iran. There were no less than ten coups and attempted assassinations under Dulles' CIA direction from 1953-1961 (involving Iran, Syria, Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba (repeatedly), Cambodia, Congo, and Dominican Republic).
You really can't make this stuff up. No casual reader would believe it. The Secretary of State under Eisenhower was John Foster Dulles, brother to the CIA Director Allen Dulles. They were the grandsons of John W. Foster, Secretary of State under Benjamin Harrison. Foster was involved in the coup that overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy and also was one of the first corporate lobbyists in DC. The Dulles boys spent summers with Grandpa Foster. This is just one of the curious elite policy dynasties that have shaped US foreign and domestic activities through the years. (Allen Dulles was even appointed to the Warren Commission by LBJ to investigate Kennedy's assassination.)
There is a conspiracy theory out there stating the survivors of the Bays of Pigs fiasco are the ones that assassinated JFK for revenge. It can work. The survivors are people trained in covert ops. They have all the skill necessary.
The one major item that hasn't been mentioned here is that Kennedy was concerned about what the Soviets would do in retaliation in Europe, specifically West Berlin. There was no way that the US and West Germans could stop West Berlin from being quickly overrun, in retaliation for an attack on Cuba. This was probably JFK's main reason for caution. The situation was vastly different 18 months later during the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Soviets had both tactical and medium range missiles in Cuba at that time, some of which were already operational, unbeknownst to the US. The Soviets also has 40,000 troops in Cuba, which was 10 times US estimates.
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That's not correct. A field commander is a major (0-4) , lieutenant colonel (0-5), or a colonel (0-6) in the Army, Air Force and Marines and Captain (0-6) Commander (0-5) or lieutenant Commander (0-4) in the Navy. None of those are authorized to use nuclear strikes ever. You need the codes. Nobody in uniform has the codes.
