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The way I understood that was, because Ruby was Jewish and suspected of being involved in a conspiracy to kill the President, people would blame and attack his family and other Jewish people. Not just unstable people.
He was a very disturbed man.
Yes indeed, that is exactly it. He mentioned persecution of jews in several of his conversations. He wanted neither himself or "his people" blamed for killing Kennedy (i.e. accused of being a co-conspirator).
The ironic thing, what he was truly afraid of, was him getting connected with the Kennedy Assassination as a co-conspirator. He was afraid of getting blamed for the assassination and others killing himself or his family using the same misguided despair that was his motive for killing Oswald.
And the ultimate irony - And here we are 50 years later, with some still accusing him of being a co-conspirator and actually twisting his words of fear against him, using that as supposed evidence of a conspiracy.
I did not say Ruby did not testify. I said he was AFRAID to testify. He was afraid of being killed. Of course he testified. That is not even debatable. I only said it SCARED him=AFRAID. "Afraid to testify" does not mean "Did not testify." It means exactly what it says, "afraid." Ok, back to what we were discussing...
OK fair enough, read my posts following that one however, why was he really afraid? It had nothing to do with the powers that be wanting to "silence" him.
OK fair enough, read my posts following that one however, why was he really afraid? It had nothing to do with the powers that be wanting to "silence" him.
Truce. It's refreshing to see that we are being fair and reasonable. So Ruby was scared of testifying because he didn't want either himself or his kind to be accused or killed for taking part in the assassination. I went back and I can see that I also said "Ruby, either on his own or instructed by Mafia connections, made sure LHO would never tell the truth. Again, there is so much that we do not know. Jack Ruby was afraid to testify because he thought he could be killed. I'm pretty sure that's true."
And I see that I jumped to a false conclusion, even though I said I was only pretty sure. Based upon what you have now written, I retract my "pretty sure" guess that he could have been instructed by the Mafia or on his own to silence LHO. I know little of Jack Ruby and find him a confusing person. I could read more but all I remember offhand is that he ran a sleazy nightclub, he hobnobbed (for lack of a better word) with the police, a person who hung out with the police and was always coming and going, sort of a gossipy type who always wanted to know what was going on. People have said he also had mob connections, but if he did, in what sort of manner, I do not know. I always thought that his fear of telling all was due to mob connections and that the mob would have killed him.
How he felt about JFK, I do not know but I remember him claiming to be a fan of JFK and I remember I never quite believed him. That was only my opinion. So others can take it from there about Jack Ruby.
Last edited by in_newengland; 03-21-2022 at 03:57 PM..
i never understood why would you shoot the abdomen to kill someone?
I've argued before that Ruby was not part of a conspiracy simply because if he was he would have aimed for the chest or the head. Many factors do not make sense when people try to put Ruby in a conspiracy. Here are a few more:
1. He had left two dogs in his truck when he crossed the street found Oswald and shot him. Why bring them with you if you are going to shoot someone under circumstances where you will be caught and put in jail?
2. Ruby had a lot of mental health issues. He was very violent man who suffered from severe depression. There is a report done by a psychiatrist who interviewed him about one month after JFK's assassination. The report details a man who was functioning very poorly. I'm not linking to it, but anyone who wants can find that report.
3. Why would the mob or anyone else pick someone as crazy as Ruby was to kill Oswald? One would think they would have picked someone who in the words of his own employees was less "psycho" than Ruby was.
4. Ruby was a single man with no wife or child. What did he get out of murdering Oswald from the mob or anyone else? No one has been able to say.
5. Why--when terminally ill and dying--did Ruby deny there was anyone, but himself involved in Oswald's killing
I admit that Oswald being killed so soon after he shot JFK is suspicious. However, JFK was a very liked man by a whole bunch of Americans. What is believed that Oswald did made many people hate him. When it was announced he had been shot, a bunch of people in the police yard burst into applause.
Ruby did testify - to police via his confession after the shooting, and in discussions with the Warren Commission. He did say his life was in danger but did not explain why, more importantly he wanted to travel to Washington DC to tell more, but also claimed not to be involved in any conspiracy. He actually wanted to travel to Washington DC to tell JFK's widow that he was not involved in the shooting of JFK.
Now, this is the conundrum that conspiracy theorist always fall into: if you don't believe the Warren Testimony, which is disregarded so often by the conspiracy fans, then you don't believe that Ruby claimed he was afraid, and then you have to consider the rest of his testimony where he claimed not to be involved in any conspiracy. So which one is it?
I've argued before that Ruby was not part of a conspiracy simply because if he was he would have aimed for the chest or the head. Many factors do not make sense when people try to put Ruby in a conspiracy. Here are a few more:
1. He had left two dogs in his truck when he crossed the street found Oswald and shot him. Why bring them with you if you are going to shoot someone under circumstances where you will be caught and put in jail?
2. Ruby had a lot of mental health issues. He was very violent man who suffered from severe depression. There is a report done by a psychiatrist who interviewed him about one month after JFK's assassination. The report details a man who was functioning very poorly. I'm not linking to it, but anyone who wants can find that report.
3. Why would the mob or anyone else pick someone as crazy as Ruby was to kill Oswald? One would think they would have picked someone who in the words of his own employees was less "psycho" than Ruby was.
4. Ruby was a single man with no wife or child. What did he get out of murdering Oswald from the mob or anyone else? No one has been able to say.
5. Why--when terminally ill and dying--did Ruby deny there was anyone, but himself involved in Oswald's killing
I admit that Oswald being killed so soon after he shot JFK is suspicious. However, JFK was a very liked man by a whole bunch of Americans. What is believed that Oswald did made many people hate him. When it was announced he had been shot, a bunch of people in the police yard burst into applause.
1. The theory is that once it was known when Oswald was coming out, they immediately tracked down Ruby and told him it’s on. Use your connections and take him out. That’s why there was no advanced planning on Ruby’s part. He was activated minutes before the actual shooting.
2. Yes, Ruby did have mental health issues and he was deteriorating physically, too. He wasn’t diagnosed with cancer yet, but he surely had terminal cancer already at that point.
3. Ruby had the DPD access that nobody else had. True, it would be better to get someone more stable, but you make do with what you have.
4. What did Ruby get out of killing Oswald? He didn’t get whacked. That’s what he got out of it. It’s well documented that Ruby was in severe financial distress and was about to lose his club. The mob bailed him out, but with the mob, there are always strings attached. There is no question in my mind that if Ruby would’ve said no to the Oswald hit, they would’ve put a bullet in his head that same day.
5. Even a terminally ill person has motivations.
Look, I agree that there are some problems with this theory. But do you know what scenario has the most problems? That Ruby took it upon himself, and acted alone, to kill Oswald because he wanted to avenge JFK’s death. That is absolutely preposterous. Again, the Warren Commission thinks we are all stupid out here.
Look, I agree that there are some problems with this theory. But do you know what scenario has the most problems? That Ruby took it upon himself, and acted alone, to kill Oswald because he wanted to avenge JFK’s death. That is absolutely preposterous. Again, the Warren Commission thinks we are all stupid out here.
Is any of this going to bring back JFK or Camelot?
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
Look, I agree that there are some problems with this theory. But do you know what scenario has the most problems? That Ruby took it upon himself, and acted alone, to kill Oswald because he wanted to avenge JFK’s death. That is absolutely preposterous. Again, the Warren Commission thinks we are all stupid out here.
Yes, it's the unusual scenario that raises questions. As I've already said, I know very little about Jack Ruby but I remember reading things about him, not knowing what to believe. It does seem that he had mob connections and that he went to New Orleans where the mobsters hung out. But he had police connections too and hung out with them. Of course these are the Dallas police and someone here said many of them applauded or cheered when they heard about JFK's death. I read that he knew more than he said in his testimony and that he told Dorothy Killgallen that he wanted to testify (more) but was scared to. It makes him a suspicious character but it doesn't prove anything. It does cause many to question his motive though
Originally Posted by WK91 View Post
Look, I agree that there are some problems with this theory. But do you know what scenario has the most problems? That Ruby took it upon himself, and acted alone, to kill Oswald because he wanted to avenge JFK’s death. That is absolutely preposterous. Again, the Warren Commission thinks we are all stupid out here.
Yes, it's the unusual scenario that raises questions. As I've already said, I know very little about Jack Ruby but I remember reading things about him, not knowing what to believe. It does seem that he had mob connections and that he went to New Orleans where the mobsters hung out. But he had police connections too and hung out with them. Of course these are the Dallas police and someone here said many of them applauded or cheered when they heard about JFK's death. I read that he knew more than he said in his testimony and that he told Dorothy Killgallen that he wanted to testify (more) but was scared to. It makes him a suspicious character but it doesn't prove anything. It does cause many to question his motive though
Understanding Jack Ruby is difficult. If you take the time to read the report of the psychiatrist that examined him in December 1963 for his murder trial it makes a little more sense. Ruby was a sad person who got a lot of bad breaks in life. He was born into a family where his father was an abusive alcoholic who frequently beat his mother and his children. Ruby had brothers and sisters and they all bore witness to that fact. His mother was so terrified of her husband that she sometimes hid under the bed to avoid him. Often when we talk about American history we dwell on the success stories. We think of the person who rose from rags to riches, the inventor who revolutionized industry and science, or one of our greatest presidents. We leave out the poverty, the abuse, and what I will call the "the dark under side of America". Most of our worst criminals come from that sort of background and we ignore it too often because we don't want to know about it. There is also great truth to the statement that violent fathers raise violent sons.
Ruby was in trouble from an early age. Most of it had to do with fights he was involved in. About his only successful experience in life was serving for three years in the military (army) during World War II and earning an honorable discharge. However, he had trouble in the military too. Its just that during the war they needed all the men they could get and chose to ignore Ruby's problems in the army as much as they could. He got involved in one fight where most of a finger was bitten off.
Employees at his night clubs called him "psycho" because he sometimes assaulted them and was known for throwing unruly customers down the stairs and out of his night club. The Dallas police tolerated him because he frequently talked to the police and gave them tips that helped them solve some crimes. His family spoke of the fact that he had expressed admiration to democrat presidents in the past. These included Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and John F Kennedy. He expressed to at least one person that because Oswald was dead that Jackie Kennedy would be spared having to attend a trial. He had seen Oswald on t.v. and had taken a visceral dislike to him. I think there may well be something to the idea that he shot Oswald in the abdomen because he wanted to make him suffer as much as he wanted to kill him. Interestingly, he sort of disassociated from killing Oswald in his questioning later. He didn't deny doing it, but spoke as though a third person had. He seemed slightly upset when told Oswald had a wife and a child. What comes through more than anything is that Ruby was a very violent man. He routinely carried a gun around with him.
Ruby told Chief Justice Earl Warren he wanted to go to Washington and testify before the Warren Commission. Warren felt he could get the information he needed out of Ruby by taking his deposition there at the Texas jail. Personally, it sounds to me like he sort of craved the attention he was getting as the killer of the man who assassinated a popular president and going to Washington was a way to get more.
I suppose none of this excludes the possibility that Ruby was part of some dark conspiracy. However, knowing this background makes it seem unlikely to me.
Last edited by markg91359; 03-22-2022 at 04:01 PM..
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It's refreshing to see that we are being fair and reasonable. So Ruby was scared of testifying because he didn't want either himself or his kind to be accused or killed for taking part in the assassination. I went back and I can see that I also said "Ruby, either on his own or instructed by Mafia connections, made sure LHO would never tell the truth. Again, there is so much that we do not know. Jack Ruby was afraid to testify because he thought he could be killed. I'm pretty sure that's true."
