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It’s well documented that millions died under the rule of Mao. Most people don’t know history. China’s elimination of supposed enemies spanned decades and continued into the 1980’s. It was a series of massacres in many different places.
Probably beginning post 1949 with supporters of the previous government and land owners. The cultural Revolution of the 60’s across various cities and provinces. And as late as the 80’s with the Strike Hard programs against supposed so called hooligans who were condemned at drum head trials and immediately executed.
Not to mention deaths thru starvation and disease because no central government that worked halfway efficiently to run the economy of a country under Communism
The deaths in the Ukraine were far from unintended.
Well the intention was definitely not ethnically inspired, it was a purge of the kulak class (middle class land owning farmers), and surprise surprise many of them lived in Ukraine as it had the most fertile lands in the Soviet Union, but like wise other fertile lands also had famines such as southern Russia and northern Kazakhstan. Stalin saw the kulaks as thorns in the way of his collectivization efforts and did everything in his power to destroy them and their resistance. But with their destruction came the collapse in harvests and Stalin ran out of food to feed everyone, and so he had most of the food feed his industrial workers as industrialization was his top priority and, and as a result many rural people had no food left.
Also if we were to allow a more nuanced take on Hitler, one would discover that Jews were only starved because Germany was experiencing food shortages (it’s one of the biggest reasons why Hitler invaded the Soviet Union) and Hitler was only going to feed the ethnic Germans first, and then what ever scraps were left would go the other ethnic groups, with the Jews at the very bottom. We should also remember that the original plan was to deport all the Jews to Madagascar (of course not with best intentions in mind as they thought the harsh climate would weaken them), but after the British blockade that plan never came to fruition, and so once Germany started loosing the war and it was clear that they couldn’t just deport the Jews, and with all those resources wasted on holding them, the decision was taken to exterminate them.
Of course nobody should defend those horrible actions that Hitler, Stalin, Moa (and many others) did, but I think it’s still import to fully understand the circumstances that brought about those actions, and the intention that framed them.
Not to mention deaths thru starvation and disease because no central government that worked halfway efficiently to run the economy of a country under Communism
How do you know? There has never been a country that was allowed to try communism, without being economically blockade and threatened with military annihilation from "freedom-loving" countries without.
History is so valuable. Maybe it is as simple as the Jewish community promotes the education of the Holocaust, so they have a voice to educate. There is very little voice from the relatives of the Chinese or the Russians that were slaughtered in the US. Can it be that simple?
I think the US is failing in a big way regarding real history. I honesty don't even remember learning about Mao. I certainly should have learned about him though. That is a lot of death and not that long ago.
Thanks.
Well Anti Semitism has always existed, Before the Nazis got into power, Jews experienced pogroms in Tsarist Russia, Also they were expelled from a number of countries like Spain, England, Portugal and France and some Arab speaking countries. They were also massacred during the Crusader periods in areas what is known in Germany, France, Italy and the Holy land. So with that I can understand why the Jewish community promotes education of the Holocaust. It not just the Jewish community in the USA that promotes the education of the holocaust but also in Europe too.
NOthing can stop you for learning about Mao. Just do a search on the internet or go to the library.
Well the intention was definitely not ethnically inspired, it was a purge of the kulak class (middle class land owning farmers), and surprise surprise many of them lived in Ukraine as it had the most fertile lands in the Soviet Union, but like wise other fertile lands also had famines such as southern Russia and northern Kazakhstan. Stalin saw the kulaks as thorns in the way of his collectivization efforts and did everything in his power to destroy them and their resistance. But with their destruction came the collapse in harvests and Stalin ran out of food to feed everyone, and so he had most of the food feed his industrial workers as industrialization was his top priority and, and as a result many rural people had no food left.
Also if we were to allow a more nuanced take on Hitler, one would discover that Jews were only starved because Germany was experiencing food shortages (it’s one of the biggest reasons why Hitler invaded the Soviet Union) and Hitler was only going to feed the ethnic Germans first, and then what ever scraps were left would go the other ethnic groups, with the Jews at the very bottom. We should also remember that the original plan was to deport all the Jews to Madagascar (of course not with best intentions in mind as they thought the harsh climate would weaken them), but after the British blockade that plan never came to fruition, and so once Germany started loosing the war and it was clear that they couldn’t just deport the Jews, and with all those resources wasted on holding them, the decision was taken to exterminate them.
Of course nobody should defend those horrible actions that Hitler, Stalin, Moa (and many others) did, but I think it’s still import to fully understand the circumstances that brought about those actions, and the intention that framed them.
Well HItler and the leading Nazis had planned before WW2 to exterminate the Jews. Hitler after all said just before Germany invaded Poland which started WW2, and said "If the International Jew within Europe and outside Europe brings about a another world war", (HItler believed the governments of the world were ruled by Jews), then the war will not result in victory of the Jews, but the destruction of Jews in Europe".
I wouldn't call 20th century atrocities "massacres".
I would call the sacks of Baghdad and Delhi massacres.
Was September 11 a "massacre"? I think so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94
Well the intention was definitely not ethnically inspired, it was a purge of the kulak class (middle class land owning farmers), and surprise surprise many of them lived in Ukraine as it had the most fertile lands in the Soviet Union, but like wise other fertile lands also had famines such as southern Russia and northern Kazakhstan. Stalin saw the kulaks as thorns in the way of his collectivization efforts and did everything in his power to destroy them and their resistance. But with their destruction came the collapse in harvests and Stalin ran out of food to feed everyone, and so he had most of the food feed his industrial workers as industrialization was his top priority and, and as a result many rural people had no food left.
Also if we were to allow a more nuanced take on Hitler, one would discover that Jews were only starved because Germany was experiencing food shortages (it’s one of the biggest reasons why Hitler invaded the Soviet Union) and Hitler was only going to feed the ethnic Germans first, and then what ever scraps were left would go the other ethnic groups, with the Jews at the very bottom. We should also remember that the original plan was to deport all the Jews to Madagascar (of course not with best intentions in mind as they thought the harsh climate would weaken them), but after the British blockade that plan never came to fruition, and so once Germany started loosing the war and it was clear that they couldn’t just deport the Jews, and with all those resources wasted on holding them, the decision was taken to exterminate them.
Of course nobody should defend those horrible actions that Hitler, Stalin, Moa (and many others) did, but I think it’s still import to fully understand the circumstances that brought about those actions, and the intention that framed them.
Just wow. Deliberate starvation of masses of people isn't murder? And is justifiable under "circumstances"? I can't believe what I'm reading.
Just wow. Deliberate starvation of masses of people isn't murder? And is justifiable under "circumstances"? I can't believe what I'm reading.
I don’t think I said “justifiable” nor am I defending or denying what happened, just trying to accurately portray what happened. If you really don’t want to repeat the past then you need to fully understand what happened and all the nuances that comes with it.
Well HItler and the leading Nazis had planned before WW2 to exterminate the Jews. Hitler after all said just before Germany invaded Poland which started WW2, and said "If the International Jew within Europe and outside Europe brings about a another world war", (HItler believed the governments of the world were ruled by Jews), then the war will not result in victory of the Jews, but the destruction of Jews in Europe".
Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that the “final solution” to the “Jewish question” was exactly that, a last resort for the Nazies of eliminating the Jews from Europe. At first they tried forced emigration, deportation, and even sterilization. But then mid way through the war they came to the realization that the only practical way of eliminating the Jews from Europe was in the form of mass genocide. Again I want to iterate that I don’t defend those actions, so it’s my understanding that the original intent behind the “destruction of Jews in Europe” wasn’t extermination vis mass murder, unless you can find a quote that says otherwise?
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