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Old 01-31-2022, 12:40 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,925 times
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Stalin gives order to have Red Army in full readiness for war.
Order is ignored and sabotaged by top generals.
It leads to total disaster for Red Army 4 days later.
Tukhachevsky - Zhukov deep state treason.
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Old 01-31-2022, 02:34 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,925 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Stalin gives order to have Red Army in full readiness for war.
Order is ignored and sabotaged by top generals.
It leads to total disaster for Red Army 4 days later.
Tukhachevsky **- Zhukov deep state treason.
** CORRECTION Timoshenko not Tukhachevsky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semyon_Timoshenko
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Old 01-31-2022, 04:47 PM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,710,204 times
Reputation: 19315
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Stalin gives order to have Red Army in full readiness for war.
Order is ignored and sabotaged by top generals.
It leads to total disaster for Red Army 4 days later.
Tukhachevsky - Zhukov deep state treason.
This is a silly ahistorical attempt to absolve Stalin of the staggeringly gross incompetence he displayed in ignoring the reality of the situation in the first half of 1941. The problem wasn't some cabal of generals - it was the man who had erected a totalitarian state in which no one in government so much as farted without Iosef Vissarionovich's explicit prior approval.

I find the enduring Russian reverence for this Georgian whose achievements came from...
a) slaughtering citizens by the millions, including Russians, and
b) simply having Eastern Europe and German technology fall into his lap as a result not of his own actions but that of a mad Austrian corporal
...to be bizarre.

Are Russians really that hard up for national heroes?
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Old 01-31-2022, 08:51 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,925 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
This is a silly ahistorical attempt to absolve Stalin of the staggeringly gross incompetence he displayed in ignoring the reality of the situation in the first half of 1941. The problem wasn't some cabal of generals - it was the man who had erected a totalitarian state in which no one in government so much as farted without Iosef Vissarionovich's explicit prior approval.

I find the enduring Russian reverence for this Georgian whose achievements came from...
a) slaughtering citizens by the millions, including Russians, and
b) simply having Eastern Europe and German technology fall into his lap as a result not of s own actions but that of a mad Austrian corporal
...to be bizarre.

Are Russians really that hard up for national heroes?
Possibly, i think it is a good research by modern Russian historian, it fit what happened - Germans expected no resistance in direction of Minsk - plan worked out since late 30's, those two generals changed Russian strategic plan in April 1941, it was defense and counterstrike to just immediate counterstrike and that was exactly what happen.
I want to know what really happen. Fact is that Directive One was ignored 4 days before war, Zhukov lied about when bombing started in his book. They gave Germans 1-2 hrs to strike at night of 22.

Last edited by G.Duval; 01-31-2022 at 09:04 PM..
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Old 02-01-2022, 02:13 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,925 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Possibly, i think it is a good research by modern Russian historian, it fit what happened - Germans expected no resistance in direction of Minsk - plan worked out since late 30's, those two generals changed Russian strategic plan in April 1941, it was defense and counterstrike to just immediate counterstrike and that was exactly what happen.
I want to know what really happen. Fact is that Directive One was ignored 4 days before war, Zhukov lied about when bombing started in his book. They gave Germans 1-2 hrs to strike at night of 22.
Book by Arsen Martirosyan " Conspiracy of Soviet Generals" in Russian, 2 books.
https://en.delachieve.com/arsen-mart...en-benikovich/

Last edited by G.Duval; 02-01-2022 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 02-01-2022, 05:23 PM
 
Location: HONOLULU
1,014 posts, read 480,268 times
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That was the starting point of WWII. There was also a war in Philippines. Japan invades the Philippines. America had to step in and help out by sending troops into the Philippines. Fighting also with the Japanese. Besides that war in the Pacific Ocean, Dec. 7, 1941.
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Old 02-03-2022, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,784 posts, read 4,989,284 times
Reputation: 2120
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Stalin gives order to have Red Army in full readiness for war.
Order is ignored and sabotaged by top generals.
It leads to total disaster for Red Army 4 days later.
Tukhachevsky - Zhukov deep state treason.
June 6, Stalin approved a plan to move to war production by the end of 1942. Stalin would not have given orders to go to war 12 days later, and if he had, if anyone ignored his orders, they would be shot.

Circa June 14, General Kirponos asks to evacuate 300,000 civilians. Stalin refuses because thought that would provoke a German attack. Stalin was not preparing for war.

June 19, Zhdanov (Party secretary, chief of Leningrad and the Leningrad party organizations, member of the military council of the Leningrad district, secretary of the central committee of the communist party, and Stalin's right hand man travels to Sochi for his holiday. Zhdanov knew nothing about some command allegedly given June 18. Stalin does not stop this because he was not expecting a war. Nor would he have allowed an important aide to go on holiday if his military had just rebelled.

17:00, the Kremlin calls a meeting to discuss the possibility that the Germans might attack that night or early the next day. Only now does Stalin consider an immediate war, and he is the defender, not the attacker.

A combat alert was given 00:30, 22 June 1941 according to official sources, although it may have been sent 45 minutes earlier in cipher. This alert said to move ammunition to the front lines, and to attack any Germans who had crossed the border.

The Leningrad party probably received the directive shortly before 02:00, and party secretary Kuznetsov called a meeting of the general staff. The meeting started one hour later when everyone had arrived.

15 minutes later 03:15, Sevastopol is bombed. Stalin is informed, but does not believe Germany is attacking, because Stalin is not thinking about going to war.

04:00, the main German attack begins.

Russian forces on the border are attacked and often destroyed before they received their telegrams.

Directive number 1 is sent out by Timoshenko at 07:15.

Stalin disappears from the scene for about 1 week because he was not prepared for a war.
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Old 02-03-2022, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,784 posts, read 4,989,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyCable View Post
That was the starting point of WWII.
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Old 02-03-2022, 10:41 AM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,177,925 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
June 6, Stalin approved a plan to move to war production by the end of 1942. Stalin would not have given orders to go to war 12 days later, and if he had, if anyone ignored his orders, they would be shot.

Circa June 14, General Kirponos asks to evacuate 300,000 civilians. Stalin refuses because thought that would provoke a German attack. Stalin was not preparing for war.

June 19, Zhdanov (Party secretary, chief of Leningrad and the Leningrad party organizations, member of the military council of the Leningrad district, secretary of the central committee of the communist party, and Stalin's right hand man travels to Sochi for his holiday. Zhdanov knew nothing about some command allegedly given June 18. Stalin does not stop this because he was not expecting a war. Nor would he have allowed an important aide to go on holiday if his military had just rebelled.

17:00, the Kremlin calls a meeting to discuss the possibility that the Germans might attack that night or early the next day. Only now does Stalin consider an immediate war, and he is the defender, not the attacker.

A combat alert was given 00:30, 22 June 1941 according to official sources, although it may have been sent 45 minutes earlier in cipher. This alert said to move ammunition to the front lines, and to attack any Germans who had crossed the border.

The Leningrad party probably received the directive shortly before 02:00, and party secretary Kuznetsov called a meeting of the general staff. The meeting started one hour later when everyone had arrived.

15 minutes later 03:15, Sevastopol is bombed. Stalin is informed, but does not believe Germany is attacking, because Stalin is not thinking about going to war.

04:00, the main German attack begins.

Russian forces on the border are attacked and often destroyed before they received their telegrams.

Directive number 1 is sent out by Timoshenko at 07:15.

Stalin disappears from the scene for about 1 week because he was not prepared for a war.
Stalin was SMART politician, surrounded buy deep state conspirators - this is another picture is being painted by modern researchers. Stalin's Directive One is ignored? I have questions...
It is conceivable that strata of people wanted the Soviet Union to die.
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Old 02-03-2022, 11:07 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,741 posts, read 7,617,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Stalin gives order to have Red Army in full readiness for war.
Got any evidence or references showing that Stalin did this?
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