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Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus, and Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus
I'm pretty sure both benefited from their family's name and connections, like Hannibal and his brothers. Their father and uncle were pretty good generals too who just had one turn of bad luck. I am looking for examples who were more self made, like William Tecumseh Sherman and John Sherman, whose careers stayed mostly independent and both reached high levels of prominence.
I'm pretty sure both benefited from their family's name and connections, like Hannibal and his brothers. Their father and uncle were pretty good generals too who just had one turn of bad luck. I am looking for examples who were more self made, like William Tecumseh Sherman and John Sherman, whose careers stayed mostly independent and both reached high levels of prominence.
You are wrong about this. Scipio's father an uncle were killed in Spain. He volunteered to take the proconsulship when he was too young, and the Senate gave it to him because no other Roman would step up. That was how he came to liberate Spain and defeat Carthage, beginning in the ninth year of a war which had been catastrophic for Rome. He outdid his father and uncle in every way, and became the leading man of his country.
His brother defeated the Seleucid Empire and earned the title "Asiatics." Contrary to what wikipedia says, Africans was sick, and did not make it to the climactic battle.
Defeating Hannibal (Africanus) and ending a Alexander legacy empire (Asiaticus) is about as self-made as it gets, and their father and uncle certainly never did anything comparable.
You are wrong about this. Scipio's father an uncle were killed in Spain. He volunteered to take the proconsulship when he was too young, and the Senate gave it to him because no other Roman would step up. That was how he came to liberate Spain and defeat Carthage, beginning in the ninth year of a war which had been catastrophic for Rome. He outdid his father and uncle in every way, and became the leading man of his country.
His brother defeated the Seleucid Empire and earned the title "Asiatics." Contrary to what wikipedia says, Africans was sick, and did not make it to the climactic battle.
Defeating Hannibal (Africanus) and ending a Alexander legacy empire (Asiaticus) is about as self-made as it gets, and their father and uncle certainly never did anything comparable.
My point is they did not work their way up to the social stratum where they can be considered for consulship. They were born into one of the hundreds or so families that can stand for Consulship, and their uncle and father already were in the highest echelon of Roman government. If they climbed the social ladder at all it was at most one or two rungs. Calling them self made is like calling any king who did much better than their father self made.
My point is they did not work their way up to the social stratum where they can be considered for consulship. They were born into one of the hundreds or so families that can stand for Consulship, and their uncle and father already were in the highest echelon of Roman government. If they climbed the social ladder at all it was at most one or two rungs. Calling them self made is like calling any king who did much better than their father self made.
Well, no, being part of one of the "hundreds of families or so" is not the same as being a king, but it is your threat, so suit yourself. Not sure you fully understand the breadth of their accomplishments, but good luck toy.
Well, no, being part of one of the "hundreds of families or so" is not the same as being a king, but it is your threat, so suit yourself. Not sure you fully understand the breadth of their accomplishments, but good luck toy.
I mentioned them in my first post so I already knew about them. I start this kind of thread to learn about people or places I'm not already familiar with.
Probably not in the way the OP meant, but I'll toss in a vote for Sarah and Angelina Grimke. Sometimes it's the lesser-knowns who help bring about change.
"When Ida Eisenhower received the Kansas "Mother of the Year" award in 1946, a reporter asked if she was proud of her famous son. She replied, "Of course" then quickly added, "Which One?" In her view, all six of her sons who lived to adulthood had accomplished great things and she was proud of each one."
Other than Dwight David Eisenhower, the most notable Eisenhower brother was the youngest, Milton. He was an academic and president of Kansas State University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Johns Hopkins University. Milton had various high profile positions during WWII and served as an advisor to Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson. Did he obtain those positions because of his brother? He had worked in the Federal Government for almost fifteen years before WWII so he was known, but having your brother as President certainly improves your chances of acting as Presidential advisor!
"When Ida Eisenhower received the Kansas "Mother of the Year" award in 1946, a reporter asked if she was proud of her famous son. She replied, "Of course" then quickly added, "Which One?" In her view, all six of her sons who lived to adulthood had accomplished great things and she was proud of each one."
Other than Dwight David Eisenhower, the most notable Eisenhower brother was the youngest, Milton. He was an academic and president of Kansas State University, the University of Pennsylvania, and Johns Hopkins University. Milton had various high profile positions during WWII and served as an advisor to Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson. Did he obtain those positions because of his brother? He had worked in the Federal Government for almost fifteen years before WWII so he was known, but having your brother as President certainly improves your chances of acting as Presidential advisor!
That's great to know. Thanks. I'll look into this. Been meaning to read up on the 50s anyway.
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