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Old 07-05-2009, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
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Don't pipes tend to build up a calcium carbonate scale inside them over time in some places with hard water? I've always wanted to find some solid archaeology on Roman pipes, to see if that happened to them. If so it would tend to refute the lead piping theory.
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:35 PM
 
Location: miami, fla. enjoying the relative cool, for now ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
1. Over 99% of Romans lived in Apartment buildings. Only 1% lived in private homes.
Roman Insulae (Apartments) - History for Kids!


2. Very few single family Roman homes had exterior windows. Most had a large opening in the ceiling which let in light and rain water
A Roman House

3. The mortality rate among wealthy Romans was high due to the fact that their water came in via Lead Pipes
Lead Poisoning and Rome

4. Julius Caesar was NOT an emperor - he was a dictator but not an emperor
List of Roman Emperors - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

5. During the height of the Roman Empire life expectancy only averaged 25 years
Thought Bullets--November 2004
awww man you let the cat out of the bag 13 months ago

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Old 07-06-2009, 04:22 AM
 
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Here is another interesting tidbit about Roman Apartments: rent got lower and average apartment sq footage got smaller for each floor you went UP - which is totally opposite of today, where the rich live on upper floors. This is because Romans didn't like climbing steps.

I must be part Roman, because I much prefer living in the basement or first floor of a building.

_______________________

No, it was because of running water. Running water only reached the first floors.
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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How about this:

During the reign of Emperor Caracalla (211-217 CE) the "Constititutio Antoniniana" was decreed which expanded Roman citizenship to all free males who resided within the empire. Before that, citizenship was the right of free men born in Italy, and the local nobility of residents of the provinces.

At all times, only Roman citizens had the right of trial when accused of a crime.

This apparently was something the gospel writers failed to take into accont when they crafted their version of the trial of Jesus. Not only do they have a trial being offered to a trouble making religious mystic from a province ruled with a heavy hand due to its rebellious nature, they have the Roman prelate himself, Pilate, showing up to preside over it.

It is very difficult to escape the conclusion that the trial of Jesus is a fictional invention, crafted by the gospel writers in an attempt to inflate the importance and stature of Jesus. What is reported in the gospels flies in the face of what we know of how Rome handled such situations.
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: miami, fla. enjoying the relative cool, for now ;)
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LOL grandstander, where did the trial of jesus occur?
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:54 AM
 
19,109 posts, read 58,145,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
Don't pipes tend to build up a calcium carbonate scale inside them over time in some places with hard water? I've always wanted to find some solid archaeology on Roman pipes, to see if that happened to them. If so it would tend to refute the lead piping theory.
In point of fact, the Roman aqueducts did show a tremendous build-up of scale. In one of my older Geographics, there is a photo of a famous aqueduct in France that shows this quite clearly. IIRC, the original thought was the lead poisoning was from a couple of sources, the use of lead sugar and acidic foods being stored in leaded containers and the use of leadware. Lead pipe was used in the U.S. for years. My grandparents house had a lead pipe water entrance from the street.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,564 posts, read 12,900,596 times
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Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
In point of fact, the Roman aqueducts did show a tremendous build-up of scale. In one of my older Geographics, there is a photo of a famous aqueduct in France that shows this quite clearly. IIRC, the original thought was the lead poisoning was from a couple of sources, the use of lead sugar and acidic foods being stored in leaded containers and the use of leadware. Lead pipe was used in the U.S. for years. My grandparents house had a lead pipe water entrance from the street.
For obvious reasons, I've never willingly eaten lead salts, but I now wonder what they tasted like. Do we have evidence that they seasoned their food with lead acetate? They can't have cooked with lead pots, of course, and I'm not sure what the melting point of pewter is or whether they had it. I'd think the lead would melt right out of it. But I can see them using lead storage containers as a form of primitive tupperware, though one of my first thoughts is how heavy those suckers would be. That lead was used heavily in Roman cosmetics, of course, is well established.

Do you also know if there was scale on the lead water delivery systems in Italy?
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post

Do you also know if there was scale on the lead water delivery systems in Italy?
I found this reference in a DCD bulletin:

If a water is “hard,” it is less likely to “leach” metals from plumbing pipes but often leaves a deposit on the inside of the pipe, while if a water is “soft” it has less of a tendency to leave deposits on the inside of plumbing pipes.

I presume that most of Rome's water supply was from stored rain water in above-ground cisterns, or else from river runoff, and would therefore be very soft. The hardest waters come from underground sources, which Rome probably had very little of, if any. That would contribute to a high coefficient of lead leaching, and a low tendency to form deposits on the inside of the pipes.

The word "plumbing" comes from the Latin word for lead.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Originally Posted by dadeguy View Post
LOL grandstander, where did the trial of jesus occur?
On paper only.
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:10 AM
 
19,109 posts, read 58,145,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I found this reference in a DCD bulletin:

If a water is “hard,” it is less likely to “leach” metals from plumbing pipes but often leaves a deposit on the inside of the pipe, while if a water is “soft” it has less of a tendency to leave deposits on the inside of plumbing pipes.

I presume that most of Rome's water supply was from stored rain water in above-ground cisterns, or else from river runoff, and would therefore be very soft. The hardest waters come from underground sources, which Rome probably had very little of, if any. That would contribute to a high coefficient of lead leaching, and a low tendency to form deposits on the inside of the pipes.

The word "plumbing" comes from the Latin word for lead.
Right concept, but wrong application.

On the Roman Aqueducts: Aqueduct

The aqueducts were made of stone and lined with stucco, which is a lime based sealer. The preferred sources were springs, which gave much safer and more pure water. The pH of the water was likely quite alkaline.
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