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Old 04-20-2022, 09:44 AM
 
408 posts, read 290,809 times
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My thoughts are this:

How does someone born on a beautiful spring day, who loved the serenity of Bavaria, the architecture, waltz music, the imaginary travel fiction of Karl May, the love of writing and drawing, and the child empathy for the Native Americans , who appreciated animals, fed crawling ants his prison crumbs from his cell…. How did this man end up so evil and cruel to humanity?

As a Jewish person I can’t stand and can’t forgive what he did to my people. He committed extreme evil acts of cruelty and was a mentally ill tyrant. But then analyzing that some of the best friends in my life all have birthdays close to this time of year, that he like them appreciates fine art and drawing, that I too like the works of his favorite childhood author Karl May, that also as a child many of the books that fascinated Hitler were also books that kids who were genocided By Hitler’s war crimes also liked …. Makes me have to write this …

If you were born on this date, lived in the same towns as Hitler grew up, and read the same works, exposed to similar environment outside the home, no you would not have turned out like Adolf. Clearly Adolf had a psychiatric condition that went untreated, exacerbated by physical abuse from his father. His personal mental illnesses were not attributed to the places around him but his lense of being harmful and unleashed and with that illness an ability to indoctrinate others enough to build a cult of personality that gained full control over a state. But it isn’t because of where he grew up.
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Old 04-20-2022, 10:07 AM
 
12,104 posts, read 23,268,769 times
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He was undoubtedly influenced by his upbringing as a child, but nationalist and ant-Semitic views were common in both pre-war and post-war Germany. His experience in WWI and the post-war chaos of defeat undoubtedly help form his worldview about traitors and Jews being responsible for Germany's problems. Post-war Germany had many anti-Semitic and Nationalist groups, but he had the gift of charisma and oration. The people who grew up where he did, read the same works that he did, etc. also believed as he did. They were his minions and lieutenants. Hitler did not create the movement.
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:00 AM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,059,103 times
Reputation: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
He was undoubtedly influenced by his upbringing as a child, but nationalist and ant-Semitic views were common in both pre-war and post-war Germany. His experience in WWI and the post-war chaos of defeat undoubtedly help form his worldview about traitors and Jews being responsible for Germany's problems. Post-war Germany had many anti-Semitic and Nationalist groups, but he had the gift of charisma and oration. The people who grew up where he did, read the same works that he did, etc. also believed as he did. They were his minions and lieutenants. Hitler did not create the movement.
Also, from what I read, he was not accepted when applying to a prestigious art school
in Vienna, and blamed jewish professors for not getting in, he was a fairly good artist.

He then moved to Munich in 1913 and immediately felt that Germany was his true
country, not Austria.

And like you mentioned in the immediate aftermath of World War I...he felt
that Germany had been humiliated by the Treaty of Versailles...Hitler had been employed
to spy on various fringe political parties/movements that were springing up,
he liked what he heard in one particular small movement, quit his job, and joined
the party....circa 1920.

It's interesting how one thing could have changed the course of the world,
accepted at art school...maybe he would just been a meek and mild artist,
instead ended up being a cruel meglomaniac dictator, affecting the fate of so many lives.

Last edited by GTB365; 04-20-2022 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 04-20-2022, 03:38 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,881,675 times
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I attribute it to Hitler being born with one testicle.


No seriously, I am sure there have been volumes written about Hitler's psyche but really it may have nothing to do with his upbringing and obviously nothing to do with being born on a beautiful spring day. People get indoctrinated not only during childhood, but there is an impressionable period in late adolescents. I believe he studied architecture and arts in Vienna when he was a teenager and there he was somehow indoctrinated into racist beliefs. But he was a man of his times as well, during the late 19th and early 20th century Germany was swept up in nationalistic fervor. Combine that with his abilities of leadership, WWI humiliation (really this triggered his hatred of jews into something more sinister), his interest in politics, personal magnetism, and some sort of missing emotional or compassion "chip" in his brain, and you have...well...Hitler.
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Old 04-22-2022, 01:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,480 posts, read 6,882,429 times
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Hitler was just a traditional demagogue being in the right place at the right time. They’re all over the place globally, nationally and locally. We have some here who are troubling but haven’t gained enough momentum to have some seismic impact on the country.

I suppose he was in the same league as Lenin. Theatrical and a powerful speaker who could whip up the masses into revolt and retaliation against perceived scapegoats. And he worked hard in the area of image making. Practicing his posturing in front of a mirror and having his poses photographed and studied for effect.

There are recordings of Hitler using his everyday speech. As uninspiring and mundane as a bank clerk. And good in public relations. He loved dogs and children at least in the newsreels. Tyrants and mass murderers are first rate con men who have the talent to make others commit atrocities in the leaders name.
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Old 04-24-2022, 08:13 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,249,298 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
He was undoubtedly influenced by his upbringing as a child, but nationalist and ant-Semitic views were common in both pre-war and post-war Germany. His experience in WWI and the post-war chaos of defeat undoubtedly help form his worldview about traitors and Jews being responsible for Germany's problems. Post-war Germany had many anti-Semitic and Nationalist groups, but he had the gift of charisma and oration. The people who grew up where he did, read the same works that he did, etc. also believed as he did. They were his minions and lieutenants. Hitler did not create the movement.
I used to muse when I was younger what I would do if I had a time machine. A common idea was to kill Hitler and fend off WWII. I'm sure there are science fiction stories along those lines.

However what you wrote is correct. Hitler was in many ways a catalyst and did have an outsized impact on Germany and the world as an individual, but to think that assassinating young Hitler would have stopped WWII from happening is wrong.

WWI left a lot of unfinished business, namely what role a united Germany should play in Europe. The Treaty of Versailles was punitive and stupid and ensured hostility between Germany and France.

Hitler had a lot of accomplices, millions in fact. It wasn't all his doing. He just rose to the top and imparted his own personal flourishes to German nationalist and European anti-Semitic movements that existed long before he came on the scene.

As to the juxtaposition of Hitler's youth and maturity in the OP, I think the more striking analogue was that in the early 20th century Germany was the most educated society on earth. And then they burned books.

I think it all underlines how fragile social order is, and how quickly base instincts can take over when a society, like a cornered animal, feels threatened.
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Old 04-24-2022, 09:16 PM
 
1,480 posts, read 478,936 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
My thoughts are this:

How does someone born on a beautiful spring day, who loved the serenity of Bavaria, the architecture, waltz music, the imaginary travel fiction of Karl May, the love of writing and drawing, and the child empathy for the Native Americans , who appreciated animals, fed crawling ants his prison crumbs from his cell…. How did this man end up so evil and cruel to humanity?

As a Jewish person I can’t stand and can’t forgive what he did to my people. He committed extreme evil acts of cruelty and was a mentally ill tyrant. But then analyzing that some of the best friends in my life all have birthdays close to this time of year, that he like them appreciates fine art and drawing, that I too like the works of his favorite childhood author Karl May, that also as a child many of the books that fascinated Hitler were also books that kids who were genocided By Hitler’s war crimes also liked …. Makes me have to write this …

If you were born on this date, lived in the same towns as Hitler grew up, and read the same works, exposed to similar environment outside the home, no you would not have turned out like Adolf. Clearly Adolf had a psychiatric condition that went untreated, exacerbated by physical abuse from his father. His personal mental illnesses were not attributed to the places around him but his lense of being harmful and unleashed and with that illness an ability to indoctrinate others enough to build a cult of personality that gained full control over a state. But it isn’t because of where he grew up.
I was born on the day Hitler died. Not the year but the date.
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Old 04-26-2022, 08:02 AM
 
5,743 posts, read 3,596,319 times
Reputation: 8905
And Stalin was born in Georgia. And Rumsfeld was born in Chicaago.
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Old 05-18-2022, 04:20 PM
 
4,096 posts, read 6,213,922 times
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Had to pipe up here because the title brings to mind my Mother, American German. Towards the end of her life she vehemently stated “People don’t know this but it’s true! Hitler wasn’t German because he was born in Austin Texas!!” Makes me laugh every time I think of it. No amount of explaining that it was Austria would be accepted, it was AUSTIN TEXAS!
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Old 05-18-2022, 11:20 PM
 
2,334 posts, read 847,073 times
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The house he was born in is still in existence apparently. I would have thought they would have taken a bulldozer to it long ago to eliminate it becoming a shrine to his latter day admirers.
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