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Old 06-10-2022, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Early America
3,125 posts, read 2,074,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Laramie View Post
I didn't say anything about buying slave cloth or mentioning that I am shopping for a slave. Slaves that traveled with the masters family were dressed considerably better than that.

I find it hard to believe that a northerner traveling in the south, provided they are white, wasn't allowed to go into a store and buy something. There were a lot of people who relocated to the south from the north for business purposes, king cotton being what it is and all. Did all those guys go naked and hungry?

So if I as a man from Philadelphia walked into a clothing shop in Charleston, here's how I see things going:

Me: "Pardon me sir, but how much for this here three piece suit, and how much for these shoes?"

Shopkeep: "Suit is $10, $2 for the shoes."

Me: "Thank you sir, I would like to purchase these. Here's $12 dollars."

Shopkeep: "Thank you, good day to you sir."

Tell me where you think the conversation would deviate from my version?
Slave cloth included a number of fabrics used exclusively for enslaved people. It was a way to mark them. You are passing him off as your slave so you would want to dress him accordingly in one of those fabrics to avoid attracting unwanted attention. A house slave would have only slightly better slave cloth than a field slave.

There were slave patrols that policed the movements of black people.

The vast majority of people had to make their clothes or hire someone to make them in 1850.
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Old 06-10-2022, 08:59 AM
 
12,964 posts, read 13,689,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Nobody is doubting that this occurred. The post above yours cites a reference that states that there were only about 25,000 escaped slaves. In 1860, there were about 4,000,000 slaves. During the time slavery existed in the land that became the US, approximately 10,000,000 people were enslaved. That indicates that about 1/4 of 1 percent escaped.

Certainly, it was easier for the occasional slave to cross the border from Maryland to Pennsylvania than it was for one to travel from Alabama to Michigan, but the vast majority of slaves were in the deep south, and your scenario about getting one out is not as plausible as you seem to think.

Some of the plantation owners employed overseers to manage the slave population. Those overseers had whips, guns, and chains to keep the slaves under control.

A successful escaped slave, while greatly admirable, was a very rare thing.
Why do you think there were: overseers , Drivers, Patrollers, bounty hunters, escaped slave notices in all the news papers, The Fugitive Slave Law, a myriad of laws, the Dred Scott case, and "slave papers" ?
Perhaps just out of an abundance of caution.

And by the way overseer's were sometimes killed by slaves and that's why poor "unpropertied" whites took the job. In the book Diary from Dixie a woman described her slaves as Black Panthers in trees waiting to jump down on you at any moment. Pinkerton detectives were brought in to investigate a plantation owner's wife who was thought to have hung herself. The detective noticed that her shoes had no dirt on them. The plantation owner did not punish his slaves when he found it was them who hung her. They dress her in her finery and killed her. Guns whips and chains only made the planters life more perilous not his slaves. These are a few of the untold stories that are suppressed. Too many black and white scholars like the image of slaves being the poor wretch. IMO some slaves didn't escape because they didn't want to. Would you walk out on your wife, children, parents, grandparents and leave them to suffer the wrath of your master? Most masters were in fact gobsmacked at the very idea that their faithful slave left.

Last edited by thriftylefty; 06-10-2022 at 09:10 AM..
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Old 06-11-2022, 01:31 PM
 
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I've seen the number of those escaped using the Underground RR as at least 100K.

Frederick Douglas & to a lesser extent Zora Neal Hurston note that many also escaped West with the Aboriginals, though they also probably got swept up in the Indian Wars from 1865-1890's.
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Old 06-12-2022, 07:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
I've seen the number of those escaped using the Underground RR as at least 100K.

Frederick Douglas & to a lesser extent Zora Neal Hurston note that many also escaped West with the Aboriginals, though they also probably got swept up in the Indian Wars from 1865-1890's.
National Geographic had an article about slave escape routes. They had a neat graphic which showed the routes on a map and the arrow going from the south into Mexico was thicker than many of the arrows going to northern zones indicating that a substantial number of slaves took this route. One researcher believes that more than 10,000 fled to Mexico.
https://www.history.com/news/undergr...escaped-slaves

I read an interesting account where a Planter was ridding in his carriage along a road and met a slave walking. He began to inquire about the slave asking what was his name, were he was going and who he belonged to. The slave informed him, "you are my master." The planter owned more than a thousand slaves and there was no way he could be familiar with each one of them. IMO Some Plantations were so large and had hundreds if not thousands of slaves and a slave could almost "casually," walk away and it would not be immediately known for hours or perhaps days.
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:12 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,050,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
National Geographic had an article about slave escape routes. They had a neat graphic which showed the routes on a map and the arrow going from the south into Mexico was thicker than many of the arrows going to northern zones indicating that a substantial number of slaves took this route. One researcher believes that more than 10,000 fled to Mexico.
https://www.history.com/news/undergr...escaped-slaves

I read an interesting account where a Planter was ridding in his carriage along a road and met a slave walking. He began to inquire about the slave asking what was his name, were he was going and who he belonged to. The slave informed him, "you are my master." The planter owned more than a thousand slaves and there was no way he could be familiar with each one of them. IMO Some Plantations were so large and had hundreds if not thousands of slaves and a slave could almost "casually," walk away and it would not be immediately known for hours or perhaps days.
The Aboriginals of the West before the Indian Wars fought for their territory against both the hispani goth & anglo-saxon wings of the globalist plantation system.

I doubt the territory controlled by hispano plantation system were anymore welcoming to runaways & Aboriginal independence than that controlled by the anglo-saxon plantation system.

Unfortunately we only the historical point of view of the companymen, HIStory.
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Old 06-13-2022, 05:03 PM
 
12,964 posts, read 13,689,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
The Aboriginals of the West before the Indian Wars fought for their territory against both the hispani goth & anglo-saxon wings of the globalist plantation system.

I doubt the territory controlled by hispano plantation system were anymore welcoming to runaways & Aboriginal independence than that controlled by the anglo-saxon plantation system.

Unfortunately we only the historical point of view of the companymen, HIStory.

"There wasn't no reason to run up north," he continued in the interview. "All we had to do was to walk, but walk south, and we'd be free as soon as we crossed the Rio Grande. In Mexico, you could be free. They didn't care what color you was — black, white, yellow or blue. Hundreds of slaves did go to Mexico and got on all right.
"

"Along the river, you don't see the deeply ingrained racism because the river has been home to a mixture of people — mestizos, mulattoes," says Francisco Guajardo, CEO of the Museum of South Texas History in Edinburg. "The river is a place of tolerance, believe it or not. The racial codes were not enforced down here because there was nobody to enforce them."

"Mexico was much less powerful than the United States, but anti-slavery gave it a way to find victory in defeat. The United States being this aggressive, slaveholding conquering nation and Mexico as this country that could actually stand upright before the civilized world for its anti-slavery positions."


But many Mexicans were sympathetic to fugitive slaves from Texas and the United States, according to María Hammack, a doctoral candidate at the University of Texas at Austin.


"Mexican authorities at times would help the now-free men and women in Mexico from being taken and returned back to the United States," says Hammack, who is writing her dissertation on the Webber family and how fugitive slaves gained freedom in Mexico.


https://www.npr.org/2021/02/28/97132...20and%20Canada.
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Old 06-14-2022, 12:02 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,107 posts, read 10,771,225 times
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Slavery was abolished in New Spain in the 1500s and later in Mexico by the new constitution. The New Mexican Hispano population was vigilant in defending their lands from encroaching Texans after the Texas Revolution. The notion of chattel slavery was not tolerated and might have been a concern, but there were other forms of bondage in New Mexico that we might not equate as slavery à la the southern plantation system. Some of that bondage practice continued in remote areas until the late 1800s. Blacks escaping slavery by running into Indian lands might be captured and later sold by the Indians, maybe even back to the slave owners. The Comanches were notably engaged in the trade in captives. The Comanchero traders, coming out of New Mexico, would trade with the plains tribes for the captives or the tribes might bring the captives to trade fairs like those held in Taos.

These people, called Genizaros, were ransomed or purchased captives, "rescued" from the Indians by the Spanish Hispano settlers or the Catholic missionaries. Genízaros became essentially a separate class of individuals, mostly Indian or mixed race, who were held as indentured workers among the Nuevo Mexico settlers for a period of time, sometimes 20 years. The numbers reached as much as one-third of the population and the colonial government would sometimes establish Genizaro communities as buffers between the hostile Indian lands and the settled Hispano towns. Several current New Mexico towns originated in that fashion. In the earliest US census records in New Mexico after the annexation, you sometimes see an Indian with a Hispano family listed as a "ward" or as "adopted" and working as a servant or a farm laborer. They disappear in later census counts.
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Old 06-14-2022, 01:26 PM
 
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Dude, nobody is denying that Aboriginals were not involved in capturing & selling coloured slaves to the Euro colonists, since many of the so-called "civilized" of the eastern seacoast were thoroughly assimilated into the plantation system. Many were collaborators like the creole crusaders & bantoid conquistadores in selling other Aboriginal slaves & encouraging settler colonization.

What's in dispute is the revisionist history that magically & mystically the hispani-goth plantation was a racial paradise for coloureds.

Many ladinos themselves don't believe the hype about racial democracy, cosmic race & other myths of the globalist plantation system.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:58 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,050,068 times
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Surprised that most answers are not referencing the Underground Rail Road.
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