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Old 08-08-2022, 07:35 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,801,446 times
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Yes, Lillie. It's horrible, and a great national shame. I am reminded of the "allegory of the long spoons," and the Poland of those years was surely hell - sometimes suffering teaches empathy, but other times it breeds selfishness, and in this case the latter occurred to a dark and terrible degree.

The original post is still nonsense, though.
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Old 08-08-2022, 08:17 PM
 
23,533 posts, read 69,959,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
It’s mind boggling that the main streets of the inner city of Warsaw were the epicenter of a Jewish ghetto that was first used by the third Reich and then liquidated and totally destroyed and it would seem like what ???? They are destroying the capital with Jews inside ? And this is not a red flag these third Reich guys are evil? But actually no. Most Poles who were not Polish Jews I think
They were fine with it

Like it wasn’t happy news for Poles by any stretch but not anything they lost sleep over , more like when your soccer team loses in over time. They saw the inner city as Marxist and even some sentiments of good riddance but why
Amazon Prime has a multipart series on WWII that goes day by day on what happened each day in the war. The days when the Reich was attempting to invade, the Polish army resistance, and the various battles are well documented - and make your supposition a complete non-starter. When you post an inflammatory post in a history forum, PLEASE at least read a LITTLE history first. The invasion of Warsaw was within the first months of the war, so you don't even have to watch much if you decide to inform yourself.
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Old 08-09-2022, 11:03 AM
 
408 posts, read 287,830 times
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The invasion of Poland was in 1939 and this extreme wrathful injustice occurred before much of the west even bothered to get involved at all. It’s unclear if not for Pearl Harbor the US would have ever joined in but how could the world turn a blind eye to barbaric invasions like this? Why didn’t they at least send massive aid and open up immigration exceptions to quotas immediately?
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Old 08-09-2022, 11:06 AM
 
408 posts, read 287,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
The Polish public raised a massive resistance to Nazi occupation. Thousands of Poles also worked to save Jewish lives during WWII, as illustrated by the high number of Poles counted in the Righteous Among the Nations.

I know it's Wikipedia, but it's a good overview to start with:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish...n_World_War_II


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland...n_Commonwealth


If you want to point fingers at any nation for not doing enough to stop the Nazis, start somewhere other than Poland. Have you seriously not heard of the Warsaw Uprising, even?
The Warsaw uprising came much much much much too late and it was decided to not act until the Allies gained ground which was a year after the Warsaw Ghetto uprising which had very few assisters
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Old 08-09-2022, 02:02 PM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,801,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
The Warsaw uprising came much much much much too late and it was decided to not act until the Allies gained ground which was a year after the Warsaw Ghetto uprising which had very few assisters
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising demonstrated how little of a chance a primarily civilian force (kind of an oxymoron, but eh) had against the Nazis in direct combat, even an extraordinarily organized and dedicated force. Hence the decision to time the Warsaw Uprising to coincide with the anticipated arrival of the Soviet troops. Of course the Soviets proved to be much less helpful than hoped.

There are violent unjust things happening all over the world right now...what are you doing about them?
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Old 08-09-2022, 04:21 PM
 
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There were two uprisings in World War II Warsaw - the 1943 Ghetto Uprising and the 1944 uprising from the rest of the city.
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Old 08-09-2022, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
3,551 posts, read 3,022,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillie767 View Post
The Poles continued with their anti-Semitism after the war ended.

"After liberation, Jewish survivors emerged from labor and concentration camps, crept carefully from hiding places, and cast off borrowed identities. They stood up and looked around at the smoking ruins and mountains of rubble that much of Europe had become while they had been incarcerated or hidden. Their first step, after evading death, was to search for family, friends and neighbors who might, like themselves, have somehow managed to remain alive in the inferno against all odds. Many decided to go back to their prewar homes, but in some places, especially in Eastern Europe, Jews met with severe outbursts of antisemitism and anti-Jewish violence. This seems ironic: if anything, there should have been sympathy for these people who had lost everything – their homes, years of their lives, and in many cases, their entire families – especially after the raw facts of the Holocaust were known.

Instead, returning Polish Jews encountered an antisemitism that was terrible in its fury and brutality. The most shocking such episode was the Kielce pogrom – a violent attack in July 1946 by Polish residents of Kielce against survivors who had returned, in which 42 Jews were murdered. The Kielce pogrom became a turning point for Holocaust survivors; it was for them the ultimate proof that no hope remained for rebuilding Jewish life in Poland. The pogrom sounded an internal alarm: during the months that followed it, survivors fled from Eastern Europe any way they could. If approximately 1,000 Jews per month left Poland between July 1945 and June 1946, immediately after the pogrom the numbers spiked dramatically: in July 1946, almost 20,000 fled; in August 1946 that number swelled to 30,000, and in September 1946, 12,000 Jews left Poland."

Then, in 1945, there was a wave of anti-Jewish pogroms in Poland, sparked by rumors that Jews had committed ritual murder: the age-old canard that Jews killed Christian children to use their blood for ritual purposes such as making matzo or wine. Even the Vatican accepted the ritual murder myth, writing in a memorandum that "the influx of Russian Jews [into Poland] coincided with the mysterious vanishing of Christian children."



You can read the individual stories of the Holocaust survivors who tried to go back to their pre-war homes.


https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/g...iberation.html
A very interesting, but very depressing, a 1996 PBS Frontline episode titled "Shtetl" documents an American Jew's search for the town where his ancestors lived prior to WW2 when many of them immigrated to the US. He had a romanticized vision of shtetl life, based on family stories, and all goes well when he first visits the town where he is welcomed as an honored guest. The town is preparing to celebrate a major anniversary of its founding, but although there had been a large Jewish population there before the war there is very little information shared about the town's Jewish history.

As the documentary unfolds, he begins to hear from other relatives the true stories of shtetl life, their treatment by the townspeople, the collaboration against neighbors, the resentment and violent response toward returning Jews, and the burying of reminders of the town's Jewish past. Equally depressing was the response received as he told his story to a Polish-American community in the US, where he received a virulent anti-Semitic response.
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Old 08-09-2022, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,334 posts, read 10,351,495 times
Reputation: 36056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
The invasion of Poland was in 1939 and this extreme wrathful injustice occurred before much of the west even bothered to get involved at all. It’s unclear if not for Pearl Harbor the US would have ever joined in but how could the world turn a blind eye to barbaric invasions like this? Why didn’t they at least send massive aid and open up immigration exceptions to quotas immediately?
When Poland was invaded, Britain and France declared war on Germany, and thus did World War II begin. Not sure what else you think they should have done over and beyond that.
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Old 08-16-2022, 09:59 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,474 posts, read 16,568,826 times
Reputation: 29649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
It’s mind boggling that the main streets of the inner city of Warsaw were the epicenter of a Jewish ghetto that was first used by the third Reich and then liquidated and totally destroyed and it would seem like what ???? They are destroying the capital with Jews inside ? And this is not a red flag these third Reich guys are evil? But actually no. Most Poles who were not Polish Jews I think
They were fine with it

Like it wasn’t happy news for Poles by any stretch but not anything they lost sleep over , more like when your soccer team loses in over time. They saw the inner city as Marxist and even some sentiments of good riddance but why
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
If this wasn’t true you would have had extreme hatred of third Reich but you didn’t have that as far as I know. Out of respect for Holocaust and political correctness you’ll hear yes it’s terrible but that’s down the throats of academia not the true feelings of real Poles and that’s kind of a shame and that can’t be forced …. You can’t change that
Jews are the canary in the coal mine, so to speak. How a society treats its Jews is a good indicator of its overall liberality and freedom. The Nazis certainly didn't stop with the Jews but they were a darned good "leading indicator."
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