Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-20-2022, 11:16 AM
 
Location: New York Area
34,999 posts, read 16,964,237 times
Reputation: 30099

Advertisements

Texas' history as an independent republic prior to joining the Union is well-known. Bowie, Crockett, Sam Houston and the Alamo are household words. Somewhat less well-known is Hawaii's brief history as a republic, after the overthrow of the monarchy, see Hawaiin Pre-1893 Was Royal Kingdon - Abigail Kawananakoa, Hawaiian princess, dies at 96, and it's joinder, first as a territory and then, much later, as an admitted State. California, if I am not mistaken, briefly was The California Bear Flag Republic, though that may have amounted to being little more than a flag. Vermont's republican existence, while little-known, is almost as consequential as Texas's though its matriculation did not birth its own war.

I just finished reading Personal Observations on the Republic of Vermont (Paperback) by Vrest Orton, more of an 86-page pamphlet than a full book. However, New York struggled mightily to retain Vermont, see George Clinton: Yeoman Politician of the New Republic by John P. Kaminski. This unsuccessful endeavor marked much of Governor Clinton's long career as New York governor.

As some may know, Vermont was not one of the Thirteen Colonies, and was not present at the Constitutional Convention. It's land was claimed, separately, by Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Britain (by way of Canada and otherwise) and most importantly New York. Many of the people living in what is now Vermont felt differently. When New York, New Hampshire and Massachusetts were royal colonies, Vermont resisted. It resisted New York's incursions more than New Hampshire, which governed with a lighter hand. The Vermonters were particularly turned off by New York's "patroon" system, akin to Russia's tradition of serfdom.

This resistance led, ultimately, to Vermont declaring an independent republic, initially called New Connecticut and later Vermont, in 1777. Vermont had its own Constitution, currency and other attributes of independence. Four year's after writing of the U.S. Constitution, Vermont joined as the 14th state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-20-2022, 12:46 PM
 
23,587 posts, read 70,358,767 times
Reputation: 49216
Vrest Orton didn't dig terribly deep, but did well enough and wrote with such understandable simplicity that he had some influence in the way Vermont history was taught in schools. His larger claim to fame was the "Vermont Country Store" in Weston, that was aimed at rich New Yorkers wanting to take home the feel of Vermont and early Americana. That fit in quite well with the state government's push for tourism as the major industry in Vermont.

The roots of the Republic of Vermont were in a significant part fed by real estate sales, and all the side issues involved. Specifically, the Champlain Valley farmland was considered valuable, and the Allens couldn't be bothered with the New York nonsense. Ethan Allen is the more famous, but Ira Allen led a more challenging life that was more poorly recorded.

The friendly relations (more or less) with Canada and hence Britain were a matter of practicality. In the days before railroads, the outlet to Lake Champlain was to the north via the Richelieu River to the St. Lawrence and ocean. One can see the why of New York's push for the Champlain Canal at the foot of Lake Champlain, connecting it to the Hudson.

One other item to note that may get bulldozed in current PC versions of history - by the time of settlement after Deerfield, most of Vermont was no-man's land. Wars between the various Indian tribes, poor soil, mountains and difficult travel drove the natives out, with the notable exception of a splinter group of Abenakis who lived along the Missisquoi River and Northern Lake Champlain. Parts of New York near the Finger Lakes, and Canada (where trapping was more practical) were much more populated. Literally, Vermont was one of the rare areas of the U.S. when no significant native population had to be driven out for settlement by Europeans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 12:51 PM
 
Location: New York Area
34,999 posts, read 16,964,237 times
Reputation: 30099
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
One other item to note that may get bulldozed in current PC versions of history - by the time of settlement after Deerfield, most of Vermont was no-man's land. Wars between the various Indian tribes, poor soil, mountains and difficult travel drove the natives out, with the notable exception of a splinter group of Abenakis who lived along the Missisquoi River and Northern Lake Champlain. Parts of New York near the Finger Lakes, and Canada (where trapping was more practical) were much more populated. Literally, Vermont was one of the rare areas of the U.S. when no significant native population had to be driven out for settlement by Europeans.
I assume you meant that these areas were never well-populated. Also, the Connecticut River was a bit of a connecting rod to more hospitable locales.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 05:36 PM
 
23,587 posts, read 70,358,767 times
Reputation: 49216
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I assume you meant that these areas were never well-populated. Also, the Connecticut River was a bit of a connecting rod to more hospitable locales.
Actually, both - never well populated AND those few who were there left because of the forces I mentioned.

The Connecticut River never quite made it to major status, likely because it did not have a great harbor at New London, and much of its valley was not as conducive to agriculture.

Logging, and the effects, are a whole side story to the history of Vermont and New Hampshire and Canada.

The major ports were Montreal, Portland ME., Boston, and New York. The North/South spines of both the Green Mountains and White Mountains were barriers that defined early settlements and connections.

Much of the way the area developed was directly related to who got to an area first and had the money and influence to keep dominance and thwart competitors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 06:22 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,236,856 times
Reputation: 10141
In the mid 1700s, Governor Benning Wenworth of New Hampshire used land grants to enrich himself and his family, this included selling land to small landowners west of the Connecticut River in today's Vermont, which was then considered part of New York.

New York complained to the Crown which ruled in 1764 in New York's favor and Wenworth had to step down (although then his nephew became governor) but the damage was already done. There was now a large number of settlers who were now living in Vermont - essentially as squatters from the New York POV - and when New York refused to recognize their claims in 1770, they turned against New York.

Thus the Green Mountain Boys.

Last edited by LINative; 12-20-2022 at 06:31 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 06:24 PM
 
23,587 posts, read 70,358,767 times
Reputation: 49216
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
In the mid 1700s, Governor Benning Wenworth of New Hampshire used land grants to enrich himself and his family, this included selling land to small landowners west of the Connecticut River in today's Vermont, which was then part of considered part of New York.

New York complained to the Crown which ruled in New York's favor and Wenworth had to step down (although then his nephew became governor) but the damage was already done. There was now a large number of settlers who were now living in Vermont - essentially as squatters from the New York POV - and when New York refused to recognize their claims, they turned against New York.

Thus the Green Mountain Boys.
YOU have been reading real history! Naughty!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 06:33 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,236,856 times
Reputation: 10141
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
YOU have been reading real history! Naughty!
Bah, I have more questions then answers. For instance, were the land claims of any Native Americans (Abenaki?) taken into account?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2022, 07:27 PM
 
Location: New York Area
34,999 posts, read 16,964,237 times
Reputation: 30099
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Actually, both - never well populated AND those few who were there left because of the forces I mentioned.

The Connecticut River never quite made it to major status, likely because it did not have a great harbor at New London, and much of its valley was not as conducive to agriculture.

Logging, and the effects, are a whole side story to the history of Vermont and New Hampshire and Canada.

The major ports were Montreal, Portland ME., Boston, and New York. The North/South spines of both the Green Mountains and White Mountains were barriers that defined early settlements and connections.

Much of the way the area developed was directly related to who got to an area first and had the money and influence to keep dominance and thwart competitors.
The Connecticut River valley was a major grower of tobacco, but I guess that didn't get as far north as Brattleboro.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2022, 05:59 AM
 
8,409 posts, read 7,402,622 times
Reputation: 8747
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The Connecticut River valley was a major grower of tobacco, but I guess that didn't get as far north as Brattleboro.
Was?

Tobacco has been grown along the Connecticut River in Massachusetts and southern Vermont for centuries. Connecticut Shade Tobacco is still much sought after for cigars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_shade_tobacco

Yes, I've spent too much of my life indulging in cigars...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top