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There was a scene in the recent film version of _All Quiet on the Western Front_ where two armies engaging in lethal combat stopped all hostile action as soon as the clock struck a certain hour. Not only was that not in the book, it struck me as ludicrous. It is not believable that every one in that battle just started to trust that their opponent will cease at the predetermined time, and there was not a single hot head among them that would not care. Has there been any historical event that even remotely matches that description? I understand that Ancient Greeks and other people from that time had certain dates of religious significance when you're not supposed to fight, and that might hold water when a battle went on for too long.
What about the opposite scenario where soldiers from two sides, tired after a long day of collecting and burying bodies of their comrades, decided to sit down and have a smoke together, and then someone looks at his watch and say "oh, no. We're supposed to start killing each other five minutes ago." Do they start then and there or do they all agree to restart only after all had returned to their front?
There was a scene in the recent film version of _All Quiet on the Western Front_ where two armies engaging in lethal combat stopped all hostile action as soon as the clock struck a certain hour. Not only was that not in the book, it struck me as ludicrous. It is not believable that every one in that battle just started to trust that their opponent will cease at the predetermined time, and there was not a single hot head among them that would not care. Has there been any historical event that even remotely matches that description? I understand that Ancient Greeks and other people from that time had certain dates of religious significance when you're not supposed to fight, and that might hold water when a battle went on for too long.
What about the opposite scenario where soldiers from two sides, tired after a long day of collecting and burying bodies of their comrades, decided to sit down and have a smoke together, and then someone looks at his watch and say "oh, no. We're supposed to start killing each other five minutes ago." Do they start then and there or do they all agree to restart only after all had returned to their front?
I think people were more regulated back in those times, more willing to obey authority and not question it.
Imagine today an officer blowing a whistle and hundreds of men scramble up ladders out of the trenches and charge headlong at the enemy who mow them down wholesale with machine gun fire. In later years during that war thousands of men went to their deaths that way and to question it either among themselves or in the ruling circles would have been "unpatriotic".
On Christmas Eve in 1914, the first year of the war German and British troops left their trenches and smoked and sang Christmas carols together, even played a game of soccer.
Too bad they didn't all decide to go home afterwards, British, French and German. The authorities couldn't have done anything about it. It was a senseless war from the beginning and had that war ended that way then Hitler and his Nazis would never have existed later on.
However, it was a whole different time and a whole different mentality
Last edited by James Austen; 04-05-2023 at 11:13 PM..
According to Fritz Vincken who was 12 at the time, during the Battle of the Bulge, on Christmas Eve, American soldiers appeared at their home; they were let in. Then German soldiers showed up and they were let in. There was an awkward meal before each side went back to their units. https://www.abmc.gov/news-events/new...ce-battlefield
I have read of battlefield truces during the Civil War where even liquor was exchanged.
I think people were more regulated back in those times, more willing to obey authority and not question it.
Imagine today an officer blowing a whistle and hundreds of men scramble up ladders out of the trenches and charge headlong at the enemy who mow them down wholesale with machine gun fire. In later years during that war thousands of men went to their deaths that way and to question it either among themselves or in the ruling circles would have been "unpatriotic".
On Christmas Eve in 1914, the first year of the war German and British troops left their trenches and smoked and sang Christmas carols together, even played a game of soccer.
Too bad they didn't all decide to go home afterwards, British, French and German. The authorities couldn't have done anything about it. It was a senseless war from the beginning and had that war ended that way then Hitler and his Nazis would never have existed later on.
However, it was a whole different time and a whole different mentality
I'm familiar with the Christmas Eve Armistice. It was definitely unauthorized and leaders on both sides transferred the men involved. It also began and ended 'organically', and not because of some arbitrary timeline.
Did you see the film? The general was no where in the trenches and in any case it was impossible for any one in charge at the front to make himself heard in such a large area in the chaos. The men just stopped because they all remembered that there was a cease fire at this hour. Whoever wrote that did not know war or human nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by webster
According to Fritz Vincken who was 12 at the time, during the Battle of the Bulge, on Christmas Eve, American soldiers appeared at their home; they were let in. Then German soldiers showed up and they were let in. There was an awkward meal before each side went back to their units. https://www.abmc.gov/news-events/new...ce-battlefield
I have read of battlefield truces during the Civil War where even liquor was exchanged.
I'm sure this happened a lot at the squad or even platoon level. This I'm sure was a spontaneous thing and they were not dealing with a clock.
I'm familiar with the Christmas Eve Armistice. It was definitely unauthorized and leaders on both sides transferred the men involved. It also began and ended 'organically', and not because of some arbitrary timeline.
Did you see the film? The general was no where in the trenches and in any case it was impossible for any one in charge at the front to make himself heard in such a large area in the chaos. The men just stopped because they all remembered that there was a cease fire at this hour. Whoever wrote that did not know war or human nature.
I'm sure this happened a lot at the squad or even platoon level. This I'm sure was a spontaneous thing and they were not dealing with a clock.
I haven't a good word for any of the French or British Generals who were involved in that war. General Haig was given the nickname of "Butcher Haig" for the number of soldiers under his command who were senselessly slaughtered.
My grandfather was a WW one survivor. There was always the joke about the deserter who wandered so far from the front lines that he actually saw a couple of Generals.
I imagine they had to fix the set time for an end to hostilities 11:00 AM, November 11 so that all fighting would come to a complete halt on both sides. Had they just decided on a date without any set time then it would have been pretty chaotic everywhere that particular day with some units still shooting at each other and others deciding that it was time to pack it in and others not knowing what the hell to do.
My grandfather was said to have told the family that when 11:00 AM arrived that day that all the artillery guns that were still firing ceased firing but the firing had already begun to die down before that.
I saw the latest version of "All quiet on the western front". I think the part at the end when the German General decided to launch one last counter attack before the ceasefire was just a bit of Hollywood added in.
Last edited by James Austen; 04-06-2023 at 09:53 AM..
I think people were more regulated back in those times, more willing to obey authority and not question it.
Find the documentary "They Shall not Grow Old" that circulated in theaters a few years ago. A silent film but they dubbed in what lipreaders could discern from the soldiers' comments. It gives a hint of what it was like in WW-I and how the soldiers seemed to think their officers were competent and they followed orders. They were gentlemen, after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Shall_Not_Grow_Old
Find the documentary "They Shall not Grow Old" that circulated in theaters a few years ago. A silent film but they dubbed in what lipreaders could discern from the soldiers' comments. It gives a hint of what it was like in WW-I and how the soldiers seemed to think their officers were competent and they followed orders. They were gentlemen, after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Shall_Not_Grow_Old
There was a very high mortality rate amongst junior officers. My grandfather was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant from the rank of Sergeant simply because of the shortage of officers. He was no "gentleman" in the meaning of upper class, public school all that sort of thing. In civilian life he had been a blacksmith.
General Washington loved his dogs. When General Howe's dog Lila ended up with the Patriots, Washington returned the dog to Howe under a flag of truce. The note read: “General Washington's compliments to General Howe, does himself the pleasure to return him a Dog, which accidentally fell into his hands, and by the inscription on the Collar appears to belong to General Howe.”
During the Civil War there were several unofficial truces. Near Jett Mill in Rappahannock County, Va., local tradition says there was a neutral trading site where soldiers from both sides would trade coffee and the like. This is recorded on the historical marker: https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=31910https://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=113177
During the Confederate siege of Chattanooga in 1863, a short truce was declared to allow the Union to collect the wounded and the dead. Afterwards, the truce was maintained between guards who at times played cards together.
There was a scene in the recent film version of _All Quiet on the Western Front_ where two armies engaging in lethal combat stopped all hostile action as soon as the clock struck a certain hour. Not only was that not in the book, it struck me as ludicrous. It is not believable that every one in that battle just started to trust that their opponent will cease at the predetermined time, and there was not a single hot head among them that would not care. Has there been any historical event that even remotely matches that description? I understand that Ancient Greeks and other people from that time had certain dates of religious significance when you're not supposed to fight, and that might hold water when a battle went on for too long.
What about the opposite scenario where soldiers from two sides, tired after a long day of collecting and burying bodies of their comrades, decided to sit down and have a smoke together, and then someone looks at his watch and say "oh, no. We're supposed to start killing each other five minutes ago." Do they start then and there or do they all agree to restart only after all had returned to their front?
Last British casualty was George Ellison, killed 90 minutes before the Armistice, the last French casualty was Augustin-Joseph Victorin Trébuchon, killed 15 minutes before the Armistice and the last casualty was, surprisingly an American fella killed one minute to 11!
Last British casualty was George Ellison, killed 90 minutes before the Armistice, the last French casualty was Augustin-Joseph Victorin Trébuchon, killed 15 minutes before the Armistice and the last casualty was, surprisingly an American fella killed one minute to 11!
His watch might have been three minutes fast, thought it was all over and decided to take a stroll across no mans land
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