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Old 05-11-2015, 07:48 AM
 
43 posts, read 48,115 times
Reputation: 35

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
A bit unclear. I have heard the argument that modern racism was developed as a justification for slavery before, but there were always concepts of different races from the most ancient times. I did not imagine reading Livy's account of one of Hannibal's general's mutinying when a half African was put in charge.



There were black slave masters living in America before slavery? How can there be slave masters without slavery?



There is no evidence of any kind, archeological, genetic, anthropological or otherwise for Africans being in the Americans before slavery. I have debunked this so many times here and elsewhere that I have just kept a good point-by-point debunking I did on a Citydata thread handy. It won't all make sense since you have not presented all of the evidences that I am debunking, but you'll get the point that the "evidences" often suggested are dodgy and easily refuted even by an amateur:

[SIZE=3][/SIZE]A) The problem with Wiercinski is that he was using anoutdated methodology based on pure races and race specific phenotypes that weno longer believe in. It doesn't matter what other crackpots agree with him,they are still wrong. Most phenotypical traits adapt to the environment veryrapidly- teeth do not. Teeth are extremely environmentally neutral. Since allancient Mexican skeletons are sundadont and sinodont, which are not African, itcan be said with absolute certainty that there was no consequential Africanpopulation in ancient Mexico.

B) I have recently run afoul of copyright violation, and want to respect the rules of the forum, but please research the work of Dr.Christy Turner for more information on the teeth.

C) Wiercinski used the same garbage methodology to prove that Egyptians were white, and that Van Sertima attributes the Olmecs to mythical"Egypto-Nubian types," has always been a glaring error. The entire Came before Columbus debacle was a non-starter from the first and has always been a huge waste of time.

D) Braids prove nothing. Cultures around the world braid hair. The oldest mummies in the world are Peruvian and they have braided hair. I think anyone reading through this thread ought to look at the "evidence" presented by the other side and question either their integrity, or perhaps their sanity.

E) the Olmecs to NOT look "Negroid," as they have epicanthiceyefolds. They are OBVIOUSLY native American:





Debunking "Black Olmec" in 23 Seconds - YouTube




The Face of a Tzotzil Does Not Lie - YouTube

F) The Mande are alternately mentioned as the "black Olmecs." Olmec civilization predates the great civilization od the Mande. It would be less ridiculous to talk about the Mexicans colonizing Africa.

G) We don't know if the Olmecs had writing, because we have only one examplethat could be proto-writing, or even a hoax, but no credible researcher attributes the random scratch marks found by Epi-Olmec and Mayan to"Mande." It is a complete and total lie. Mande script was invented inthe 19th century. Vai is similarly modern.

H) Neither the Mande, nor the Sonike, nor any other West African group builtpyramids. When confronted with this, deceitful Afrocentrics usually postpictures of ten foot tall mud piles from Nigeria and claim that the areconnected with the monumental stone architecture of Egypt and Mexico. It is sad on its face.

I) One thing the Africans have always done well is metal working. Why then, ifthey came to the new world to built pyramids that they did not built in WestAfrica, did they not take their metal tools and weapons with them? Why did metal working not flourish? Cortez fought against peoples using obsidian, not iron.

J) Once you get past the coastal mestizos, who are obviously influenced by the slave trade, there is almost no African genetic influence on indigenous Mexicans what-so-ever. The Chontal Mayans, for example, have only 5% genetic influence, and that is high. The Cora have only .08%. A lot of the confusionabout the Olmec heads is that Caucasian influences have altered the Mexicanpeople so that we do not always recognize their ancestors. Ruben Lisker is the source for the genetics information.

K) In the decades since Van Sertima's "thesis," we have discovered the elements of Olmec civilization in contemporaries and civilizations a thousand years older. They are no longer looked at as a "mother culture." We have a pretty good map of the development of native Mexican civilization in places like El Matani.

L) The epidemiological evidence has been covered. Suffice to say that the Afro-centrists don't seem to understand that the Native American's were decimated by diseases because of their geographic isolation. Since is common knowledge to most elementary school students, we needn't spend much time on it.

M) As for the "cocaine mummies," tobacco was known in the old world, and the results of the cocaine were not able to be duplicated. in fact, it is largely suspected that the original, allegedly shocking results were the result of a coke head, cigarette smoking scientist who was not careful. This is now common knowledge, and you need go no farther than Wiki.

N) Someone made an almost comical argument that we know that there were "black" people in the new world because the Columbus referred to them. This is the same guy who forever gave to the natives the misnomer "Indians" because he thought were from India. This was the same guywho thought that the Carribs were soldiers of the Khan. He defined EVERYTHING in old world terms.

O) This constant attempt at stealing other people's cultures and ancestors isdegrading to Africans, who do have a great history of their own. Anyone readingthough this post can tell that I have a great appreciation for West Africanhistory. They did not build pyramids, but they built some visually stunningstone cities. They did not write in "Mande," but they had the finest librariesin the world filled with books written in Ajami and other languages. TheAfricans too were great, and I find it morally repulsive that they are notcelebrated for what they actually did.

[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]




Not only was there slavery in Africa, but there were many, many forms of it, some with practices that dwarf Western slavery in cruelty.

A) Various West Africans practiced mass sacrifice on a massive level during special events and perennial events such as the Dahomey annual rights and the Ashanti festival of the yams.

B) West Africans castrated massive numbers of their own to sell as Eunuchs. They has to do it on a truly massive scale because 90% of the victims died. They simply castrated a lot of men, let them fall to the floor and bleed until they died or stabilized, at which point they were made euncuch slaves.

C) Ibn Battuta describes a personal account by the king of Mali of giving a young girl slave to a group of visiting cannibals to be butchered and eaten.

D) The Ashanti kept hundreds of thousands of slaves as musket men solders. When the fought, swordsmen stood at their backs, not to support them but to kill them if they resisted fighting.

E) Contrary to popular belief, West Africa did practice chattel slavery of POWs, and since wars were usually fought against traditional ethnic enemies, I believe it is completely fair to say that there was a racial element in it.

F) Sexual slavery has always been rampant in West Africa and remains so to this day.

G) the average life span of a slave in ancient Kanem was 7 years from the time of enslavement. So much for "12 years a slave." They didn't make it that long.

H) Slavery was legal in Mauretania until 2007. It persists to this day there and elsewhere.
Right on!
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Old 05-11-2015, 07:50 AM
 
43 posts, read 48,115 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
A bit unclear. I have heard the argument that modern racism was developed as a justification for slavery before, but there were always concepts of different races from the most ancient times. I did not imagine reading Livy's account of one of Hannibal's general's mutinying when a half African was put in charge.



There were black slave masters living in America before slavery? How can there be slave masters without slavery?



There is no evidence of any kind, archeological, genetic, anthropological or otherwise for Africans being in the Americans before slavery. I have debunked this so many times here and elsewhere that I have just kept a good point-by-point debunking I did on a Citydata thread handy. It won't all make sense since you have not presented all of the evidences that I am debunking, but you'll get the point that the "evidences" often suggested are dodgy and easily refuted even by an amateur:

[SIZE=3][/SIZE]A) The problem with Wiercinski is that he was using anoutdated methodology based on pure races and race specific phenotypes that weno longer believe in. It doesn't matter what other crackpots agree with him,they are still wrong. Most phenotypical traits adapt to the environment veryrapidly- teeth do not. Teeth are extremely environmentally neutral. Since allancient Mexican skeletons are sundadont and sinodont, which are not African, itcan be said with absolute certainty that there was no consequential Africanpopulation in ancient Mexico.

B) I have recently run afoul of copyright violation, and want to respect the rules of the forum, but please research the work of Dr.Christy Turner for more information on the teeth.

C) Wiercinski used the same garbage methodology to prove that Egyptians were white, and that Van Sertima attributes the Olmecs to mythical"Egypto-Nubian types," has always been a glaring error. The entire Came before Columbus debacle was a non-starter from the first and has always been a huge waste of time.

D) Braids prove nothing. Cultures around the world braid hair. The oldest mummies in the world are Peruvian and they have braided hair. I think anyone reading through this thread ought to look at the "evidence" presented by the other side and question either their integrity, or perhaps their sanity.

E) the Olmecs to NOT look "Negroid," as they have epicanthiceyefolds. They are OBVIOUSLY native American:





Debunking "Black Olmec" in 23 Seconds - YouTube




The Face of a Tzotzil Does Not Lie - YouTube

F) The Mande are alternately mentioned as the "black Olmecs." Olmec civilization predates the great civilization od the Mande. It would be less ridiculous to talk about the Mexicans colonizing Africa.

G) We don't know if the Olmecs had writing, because we have only one examplethat could be proto-writing, or even a hoax, but no credible researcher attributes the random scratch marks found by Epi-Olmec and Mayan to"Mande." It is a complete and total lie. Mande script was invented inthe 19th century. Vai is similarly modern.

H) Neither the Mande, nor the Sonike, nor any other West African group builtpyramids. When confronted with this, deceitful Afrocentrics usually postpictures of ten foot tall mud piles from Nigeria and claim that the areconnected with the monumental stone architecture of Egypt and Mexico. It is sad on its face.

I) One thing the Africans have always done well is metal working. Why then, ifthey came to the new world to built pyramids that they did not built in WestAfrica, did they not take their metal tools and weapons with them? Why did metal working not flourish? Cortez fought against peoples using obsidian, not iron.

J) Once you get past the coastal mestizos, who are obviously influenced by the slave trade, there is almost no African genetic influence on indigenous Mexicans what-so-ever. The Chontal Mayans, for example, have only 5% genetic influence, and that is high. The Cora have only .08%. A lot of the confusionabout the Olmec heads is that Caucasian influences have altered the Mexicanpeople so that we do not always recognize their ancestors. Ruben Lisker is the source for the genetics information.

K) In the decades since Van Sertima's "thesis," we have discovered the elements of Olmec civilization in contemporaries and civilizations a thousand years older. They are no longer looked at as a "mother culture." We have a pretty good map of the development of native Mexican civilization in places like El Matani.

L) The epidemiological evidence has been covered. Suffice to say that the Afro-centrists don't seem to understand that the Native American's were decimated by diseases because of their geographic isolation. Since is common knowledge to most elementary school students, we needn't spend much time on it.

M) As for the "cocaine mummies," tobacco was known in the old world, and the results of the cocaine were not able to be duplicated. in fact, it is largely suspected that the original, allegedly shocking results were the result of a coke head, cigarette smoking scientist who was not careful. This is now common knowledge, and you need go no farther than Wiki.

N) Someone made an almost comical argument that we know that there were "black" people in the new world because the Columbus referred to them. This is the same guy who forever gave to the natives the misnomer "Indians" because he thought were from India. This was the same guywho thought that the Carribs were soldiers of the Khan. He defined EVERYTHING in old world terms.

O) This constant attempt at stealing other people's cultures and ancestors isdegrading to Africans, who do have a great history of their own. Anyone readingthough this post can tell that I have a great appreciation for West Africanhistory. They did not build pyramids, but they built some visually stunningstone cities. They did not write in "Mande," but they had the finest librariesin the world filled with books written in Ajami and other languages. TheAfricans too were great, and I find it morally repulsive that they are notcelebrated for what they actually did.

[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]




Not only was there slavery in Africa, but there were many, many forms of it, some with practices that dwarf Western slavery in cruelty.

A) Various West Africans practiced mass sacrifice on a massive level during special events and perennial events such as the Dahomey annual rights and the Ashanti festival of the yams.

B) West Africans castrated massive numbers of their own to sell as Eunuchs. They has to do it on a truly massive scale because 90% of the victims died. They simply castrated a lot of men, let them fall to the floor and bleed until they died or stabilized, at which point they were made euncuch slaves.

C) Ibn Battuta describes a personal account by the king of Mali of giving a young girl slave to a group of visiting cannibals to be butchered and eaten.

D) The Ashanti kept hundreds of thousands of slaves as musket men solders. When the fought, swordsmen stood at their backs, not to support them but to kill them if they resisted fighting.

E) Contrary to popular belief, West Africa did practice chattel slavery of POWs, and since wars were usually fought against traditional ethnic enemies, I believe it is completely fair to say that there was a racial element in it.

F) Sexual slavery has always been rampant in West Africa and remains so to this day.

G) the average life span of a slave in ancient Kanem was 7 years from the time of enslavement. So much for "12 years a slave." They didn't make it that long.

H) Slavery was legal in Mauretania until 2007. It persists to this day there and elsewhere.
LOL let's not start up that hog wash about the Olmecs being black again, Afrocentrics look like fools man.
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