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Hitler had no hesitation in trying to bomb England into submission in 1940-41, then later
with his V-1s and 2s. The bravery of our Spitfire and Hurricane pilots put him off, and he
turned his attention to Russia. I've no doubt he would, if he had one, have dropped an
A-bomb on England. Even more so as America built up it's forces here for D-Day.
This is another reason why i believed the USA would have used the bomb on Germany to stop them when it became available ...
"Hitler had no hesitation in trying to bomb England into submission in 1940-41, then later
with his V-1s and 2s. The bravery of our Spitfire and Hurricane pilots put him off, and he
turned his attention to Russia. I've no doubt he would, if he had one, have dropped an
A-bomb on England. Even more so as America built up it's forces here for D-Day."
I have to stand by my guns if England had fell to Germany, America would have fried Germany...
"Hitler had no hesitation in trying to bomb England into submission in 1940-41, then later
with his V-1s and 2s. The bravery of our Spitfire and Hurricane pilots put him off, and he
turned his attention to Russia. I've no doubt he would, if he had one, have dropped an
A-bomb on England. Even more so as America built up it's forces here for D-Day."
I have to stand by my guns if England had fell to Germany, America would have fried Germany...
If England had fell to Germany and by A-BOMBING Germany , can you imagine how many more American lives it would have saved ...?
This is an old thread, but the answer would have been, no. At least according to the people who were deciding on where to use the bomb. It has been discussed several times on the board in the past year, but the intended target of the atomic bombs was ALWAYS Japan, but not necessarily Japanese cities. .
That is not correct. The Manhattan Project was conceived as a counter to the possibility of Germany developing an atomic bomb. The means to drop it on Japan did not even exist until 1944 when: A) The B-29 Superfortress which had the range to cross immense Pacific distances, became available for use. and B) The Marianas campaign resulted in the capture of Tinian and Saipan..now the B-29s would have a base from which their range could reach Japan.
If England had fallen to Germany the war would have most likely been over. If for some miraculous reason the US enters or stays in a war against Germany absent England, how exactly would we have dropped the bomb on Germany? A B29 could cover the distance from a base in Greenland to Germany, but it would NOT be able to make it back.
Additionally, a lone B29 without escort would have been an absolute sitting duck flying over the vast expanse of territory that would have been occupied and patrolled by German interceptors. Any aircraft carrier would have been a sitting duck if it got close enough to provide fighter escorts. Certainly it would have been possible, but the logistics of doing so would have represented a monumental effort and expenditure in the hopes of taking out one German city, which given a scenario where they had pretty much won, probably wouldn't have convinced them otherwise.
I don't think it was an impossibility for the US to use the bomb against Germany in some alt-history scenario had the war not gone the way it did, but the only way that happens is if Japan surrenders first and Germany's defeat was not imminent by conventional methods.
Like I said earlier, the reality of the historical timeline of the atomic bomb was that it was NEVER intended for use against Germany for the reason I outlined.
That is not correct. The Manhattan Project was conceived as a counter to the possibility of Germany developing an atomic bomb. The means to drop it on Japan did not even exist until 1944 when: A) The B-29 Superfortress which had the range to cross immense Pacific distances, became available for use. and B) The Marianas campaign resulted in the capture of Tinian and Saipan..now the B-29s would have a base from which their range could reach Japan.
I discussed this with sources before in another thread:
However, reality is that the chances of an atomic bomb being used on Germany were pretty much nill outside of Germany using one first. Much evidence has come out that Japan always was the intended target for the bomb.
Potential targets were first discussed in 1943 and at the time the highest priority target was listed as the Japanese naval base at Truk. There were two compelling reasons for this:
1. If the bomb was a dud it would fall into the deep harbor and be almost impossible to recover. The Germans had no value targets in the water. Truk represented the ability to wipe out Japans most important naval base in the Pacific outside of the home islands and deal a crippling blow to their fleet, while not risking the bomb being recovered if it was a dud.
2. Even if a dud bomb was recovered the Japanese had very little use for it given how far behind they were in terms of atomic weaponry. The Manhattan Project itself was a response to Germany's program and it would seen the people making the targeting choices were hesitant to drop one over Germany and risk it being a dud and hence handing the Germans the technology that they would certainly understand.
Some other anecdotal evidence is the fact that the B29 was always slated as the delivery vehicle for the bomb and was the only bomber modified for the mission. The B29 was always a PTO plane and not used in Europe at all. The British Lancaster bomber would have been able to carry the atomic bomb as well, but no plans were ever made to modify it for that role.
Here is an interesting article that the research on surprised even the scientists who worked on the project. Chances are even with an atomic bomb at their disposal in say, 1944, the Allies most likely would have not dropped it on Germany.
The Manhattan Project was launched in 1939, based on the warnings to FDR about the potential for such a weapon being developed by others. The US wasn't at war with Japan or Germany, and of the two, Germany was regarded as the nation most likely to have the ability to produce an atomic weapon, as well as the nation most likely to wind up in a war against the US. The project got underway with the idea of countering the German threat..not any atomic threat from Japan.
The Manhattan Project was launched in 1939, based on the warnings to FDR about the potential for such a weapon being developed by others. The US wasn't at war with Japan or Germany, and of the two, Germany was regarded as the nation most likely to have the ability to produce an atomic weapon, as well as the nation most likely to wind up in a war against the US. The project got underway with the idea of countering the German threat..not any atomic threat from Japan.
That is absolutely true, but that does not make it true that Germany was the definitive target when a bomb became a reality in 1943. The article I posted above (which is not some random publication) clearly outlines the facts regarding the targeting decisions. The first meeting about what to drop a potential atomic bomb on was held in May 1943. Even at that time, a year before D-Day, the ONLY target discussed as a legitimate possibility was the Japanese naval base at Truk for the reasons I outlined earlier. In fact when they went through all of the available documentation regarding the selection of targets from 1943 to 1945, Germany is NEVER mentioned, only Japan.
You had also mentioned the B29 and it is true that the plane "didn't exist" in an operational sense nor the "bases to launch it" until late in the war, but the plane was in development and had taken its first test flight in 1942. They made the decision in 1943 that the B29 would be the chosen delivery vehicle and began efforts to modify it for that role, despite the fact it was never intended for the ETO, just the PTO and the British Lancaster could have just as easily been modified to drop the bomb (it had already been modified to carry the "Tall Boy" and "Grand Slam" bombs) but no plans for that contingency were ever made.
So, while it is true that the Manhattan Project was launched to counter the possibility of Germany developing atomic weapons, by the time they became a reality in 1943, Japan was the chosen target.
So, while it is true that the Manhattan Project was launched to counter the possibility of Germany developing atomic weapons, by the time they became a reality in 1943, Japan was the chosen target.
Okay...your original statement was that Japan was "always" the intended target. You have modified that now to "by the time.."
Okay...your original statement was that Japan was "always" the intended target. You have modified that now to "by the time.."
I concede the point that my original statement was misleading, but are we really going to argue semantics?
Here was my original statement:
This is an old thread, but the answer would have been, no. At least according to the people who were deciding on where to use the bomb. It has been discussed several times on the board in the past year, but the intended target of the atomic bombs was ALWAYS Japan, but not necessarily Japanese cities. It had nothing to do with allies, atrocities or genetics, it was simply a matter of practicality.
Here is the corrected one:
This is an old thread, but the answer would have been, no. At least according to the people who were deciding on where to use the bomb. It has been discussed several times on the board in the past year, but the intended target of the atomic bombs, once it became a reality in 1943, was ALWAYS Japan, but not necessarily Japanese cities. It had nothing to do with allies, atrocities or genetics, it was simply a matter of practicality.
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