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With Italy not an ally how would Germany ever get to north africa? Or if they did, how long you think they last? did they have another fuel supply?
Even if Italy did not have the prowess, their numbers would certainly aid Britain and France, even if not at the Maginot Line, or Dunkirk, or where ever near the Rhine. They could at least open another front and draw away Hitler's troops
Plus if America still decides to join the war, they have now two places they can dock their ships that are basically right next to Germany.
even though Italy didn't get knocked out of the war early I think France or Poland made for a much better ally to often the Italians were more burdens to the war effort then an actual help there navy was pretty good though.
It most certainly WOULD have made a difference; even a weak and needy friendly power is better than a power who is right up against your underbelly (Alps or no, Italy had an effective mountain force) and opening up another front in addition to the two Germany was already fighting on. It is absolute rubbish to declare that Italy's allegiance would not have affected the war; in fact, unless Hitler was really desperate, WWII would not have happened at ALL.
The invasion of the USSR was postponed a month so Germany could clean up Greece. Italy invaded Greece earlier in 1941 but could no beat them. So Germany had to invade (by way of Yugoslavia) or England would have held it and could have exploited Germany's southern flank.
Because Germany's invasion was postponed, it ran into the fall rains not far from Moscow. The invasion was slowed. If it had not be delayed, Moscow would have been seized. The USSR would have been knocked out of the war.
The invasion of the USSR was postponed a month so Germany could clean up Greece. Italy invaded Greece earlier in 1941 but could no beat them. So Germany had to invade (by way of Yugoslavia) or England would have held it and could have exploited Germany's southern flank.
Because Germany's invasion was postponed, it ran into the fall rains not far from Moscow. The invasion was slowed. If it had not be delayed, Moscow would have been seized. The USSR would have been knocked out of the war.
Even if Barbarossa had started on schedule, by the time they got close to Moscow the German supply lines were badly over extended, and they were not equipped for the severe cold. The Soviet government could have moved east of the Urals, with Moscow becoming another Stalingrad.
Even if the Soviets had surrendered, Hitler guaranteed Germany's defeat when he declared war on the United States. The atomic bomb still would be ready by August, 1945, and the "Germany first" policy would have had little boy fall on Germany instead of Hiroshima.
I think the best case for the allies would have been if Italy had been neutral, and kept the German army out. Much of Italy is good defensive territory, and it cost a lot of American, British, and Italian lives to get them out.
The invasion of the USSR was postponed a month so Germany could clean up Greece. Italy invaded Greece earlier in 1941 but could no beat them. So Germany had to invade (by way of Yugoslavia) or England would have held it and could have exploited Germany's southern flank.
Because Germany's invasion was postponed, it ran into the fall rains not far from Moscow. The invasion was slowed. If it had not be delayed, Moscow would have been seized. The USSR would have been knocked out of the war.
Actually, the German invasion of Greece had been planned since the previous November (1940) and was planned in coordination with the planning of Barbarossa. In any case, the spring of 1941 was an unusually wet one along what would become the Eastern Front. Streams and rivers were flooded late, and there was little chance of armor moving en masse before mid-June. Further, what materiel impact on Barbarossa that the invasion of Greece did have was on the southern flank, and that little affected the drive on Moscow.
Basically, Italy has long been a scapegoat for German failures in World War II. When the end loomed, Hitler himself blamed the Italian inability to subdue Greece and the resulting German intervention as preventing the fall of the USSR. But then, Hitler excelled at blaming others for his own failures.
With Italy not an ally how would Germany ever get to north africa? Or if they did, how long you think they last? did they have another fuel supply?
Even if Italy did not have the prowess, their numbers would certainly aid Britain and France, even if not at the Maginot Line, or Dunkirk, or where ever near the Rhine. They could at least open another front and draw away Hitler's troops
Plus if America still decides to join the war, they have now two places they can dock their ships that are basically right next to Germany.
Germany took over in North Africa after Italy was almost driven out. I don't think the Germans had any plans to be there. Not in 1941 anyway.
If Italy had joined the allies, then it is they who would have had to bail the Italians out. Say Italy tried to invade over the Alps. They would have failed, Germany would have invaded Italy and the allies (England and Commonwealth in 1941) would have had to consider sending troops to Italy to support it.
Such an 'if' is impossible.
Hitler was Mussolini's biggest fan. Mussolini taught Hitler how to act, how to look the part, how to speak to a crowd, and what to do about the opposition.
Mussolini also taught Hitler when to go to war, how to go to war, and where to go to war first.
So there was simply no chance at all that Mussolini would ever ally with any of the nations who were our allies. Mussolini was Hitler's adored older brother who provided him all the examples of how to be the best dictator he could be. Mussolini even taught him how to lose the war too. Both were lousy at strategy and both cowed their general staffs.
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