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Old 12-23-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,992,173 times
Reputation: 36644

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
You're in a different context with that. I'm unaware that The Homestead Act had any sort of application to settling the US/Mexican question of the national ownership of the North American SW.
I used the example because it offers an insight into what in our culture would intuitively form the elements of rightful land ownership. I had no intention of overlaying one application congruently on the other one to settle the matter.
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Old 12-24-2009, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,129,546 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I used the example because it offers an insight into what in our culture would intuitively form the elements of rightful land ownership. I had no intention of overlaying one application congruently on the other one to settle the matter.
There are all sorts of theories, justifications, historical claims..and there is the way people have always behaved.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:36 AM
 
59 posts, read 127,800 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Say what you will: but in areas that are critical for the function of a solid First World society i.e. Rule of Law; WASP traditions still hold sway all across our Southwest/California vs. archaic Hispanic ones. Note I am not talking about Hispanic food, architecture, etc. here..........which have permeated pretty much the whole nation------------ just that us Anglos have simply incorporated said things into our dominant society

A quick peek between El Paso and Juarez underscores my opinion. The latter place is getting so bad with the narco crap that the business community is wanting UN blue helmets to help; if that is not a damning indictment of Mexican society as it continues to implode---------I don't know what is.

BTW: I live here in Arizona so I can see with my own two eyes.
Wow I am sorry, but I didn't realize that we anglo's had a perfect drug free society, that is corruption free and is not prone to violence.

There would be no Narco violence in Mexico if it wasn't our Drug highway, and we foster the violence with outdated progressive prohibition style policies.
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:42 AM
 
248 posts, read 616,311 times
Reputation: 162
As Jtur mentioned, the poorest and most destitute places in the Americas are not former Spanish countries.

1. Haiti
2. Guyana
3. Belize
4. Black ghettos in the US.
5. The frontier strip between the US and Mexico - violence and corruption provoked by American demand of drugs.
6. Jamaica
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:50 AM
 
248 posts, read 616,311 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Throughout most of American history, the Homestead Law, oversimplifying, generally recognized 'rightful ownership' of a person who made a claim to land and then improved it to a degree that it met some criteria of productive or habitable.

If the spirit of this law is extrapolated to encompass a broader principle, that would suggest that the 'rightful owner' of land can reasonably be deemed to be the claimant who improves it.
-----------

Not applicable.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,992,173 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neng View Post
-----------

Not applicable.
Not applicable to what? Not applicable to a working definition of what is culturally recognized as "rightful ownership" of land?

Do you have anything to add which will lend support to your erudite, sweeping statement?
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
3,007 posts, read 6,288,574 times
Reputation: 3310
Quote:
Originally Posted by island atoll View Post
Why did Spain's conquest of North and South America result in a bunch of 3rd world countries? Why did anything the British touch turn to gold? Think New Zealand, Australia, Canada, THE UNITED STATES... etc. etc.

You'll never see scenes like this in any former British colonies, or majority English speaking countries.
Chile?
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,138,196 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neng View Post
As Jtur mentioned, the poorest and most destitute places in the Americas are not former Spanish countries.

1. Haiti
2. Guyana
3. Belize
4. Black ghettos in the US.
5. The frontier strip between the US and Mexico - violence and corruption provoked by American demand of drugs.
6. Jamaica
Haiti=yes (never mind it has been nominally independent for over 200 years now)
Guyana=I do not know enough about it to pass judgement
Belize=it now has a major Hispanic illegal alien problem since Guatemala 'wants' it back---------never mind that Guat did not exist when the UK took the former British Honduras from Spain ca. 1815.
Black ghettos in the US=their biggest problem is their basic poor me/failure based 'culture'----------NOT a lack of $$$ to improve. And in all fairness; that loser mentality is changing between a (now) low birthrate and with Obama in the White House, acting 'ghetto' sure looks foolish now.
The frontier strip between the US and Mexico-violence and corruption provoked by American demand of drugs=try again. Since we (the USA) is starting to really choke off our southern border; the drug cartels are now starting to ship their wares to Europe directly bypassing the USA. Too; where is it written in stone that Mexicans have to murder one another in Mexico to supply our putative demand for drugs? Their societal failure lies with Mexican culture with its childish machismo and growing drug use there.
Jamaica=Not sure what its problems are; it need to change its basic culture of not succeeding.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,548 times
Reputation: 416
Putting it crudely, the rule of thumb seems to be that wherever you can exterminate the natives (or at least drive them into a corner somewhere), and resettle the country with Europeans, a relatively prosperous country, like Europe, emerges. Where there are too many natives for that, and the most you can do is enslave them, a Third World country results. New Zealand is perhaps a partial exception, but about the only one I can think of.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:21 PM
 
Location: NC
9,984 posts, read 10,394,292 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by island atoll View Post
Why did Spain's conquest of North and South America result in a bunch of 3rd world countries? Why did anything the British touch turn to gold? Think New Zealand, Australia, Canada, THE UNITED STATES... etc. etc.

You'll never see scenes like this in any former British colonies, or majority English speaking countries.
I take it you have not heard of Burma.
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