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Old 01-09-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: 96820
795 posts, read 2,299,215 times
Reputation: 407

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroGuy View Post
Well it still was wrong for FDR to intern people without the consent of congress.
Being a fellow traveler and working with his staff of card carrying members, like the obama, he did all he could to dance with Carl.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: 96820
795 posts, read 2,299,215 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
He had a great precedent. Lincoln, considered one of our greatest presidents, ran roughshod over civil rights when he felt it was necessary during the Civil War.
And personally signed death warrants for a number of citizens }President Lincoln ordered the deaths of only 39{ along with - no heɪbiːəs ˈkɔrpəs. - Habeas Corpus in the Civil War -
On April 27, 1861, about a week after the Fort Sumter surrender, President Lincoln ordered Winfield Scott, then head of the nation's military, to arrest anyone between Washington and Philadelphia suspected of subversive acts or speech, and his order specifically authorized suspension of the writ of habeas corpus. Scott passed the order down the line, and Southern sympathizers in
Maryland were rounded up in batches.

Executive Orders excerpted from the book Inside the Shadow Government
This order gave Lincoln and his military commanders unlimited powers to arrest and detain anyone they wanted; persons detained had, as a practical matter, no legal rights.
The immediate targets of Lincoln's order were not, as the order implied, rebellious Southerners, but the state legislature of Maryland. Several members were known Southern sympathizers, and there was fear that Maryland might also vote to secede. The fear was justified; the legislature had rejected Lincoln's April 15 order for men from its state militia, calling it unconstitutional. After Lincoln's order of April 27, the first arrests included thirty-one of the legislators along with the mayor of Baltimore and a congressman from the state. The governor of Maryland resigned under threat of arrest, and the Army (presumably with Lincoln's approval) installed a pro-union replacement for him for the rest of the Civil War. Lincoln later extended the order suspending the writ of habeas corpus to the entire United States; its principal targets were not Confederate saboteurs or spies but northerners who opposed the war or the draft (especially newspaper editors and writers).
The most notorious target of Lincoln's order was Clement Vallandigham, a congressman from Ohio who opposed the war and called for a negotiated end to it. He was defeated for re-election in 1862. On May 1, 1863, he made a speech in Mount Vernon, Ohio against "the wicked, cruel, and unnecessary war," charging that "the men in power are attempting to establish a despotism in this country, more cruel and more Oppressive than ever existed before." A few days later, soldiers under the command of General Ambrose Burnside raided Vallandigham's farm in the middle of the night, taking him prisoner and charging him with declaring sympathies for the enemy." Instead of being tried in a civilian court, Vallandigham was tried before a military tribunal and sentenced to prison for the remainder of the war. Lincoln commuted his sentence, and-in a move that had no legal foundation or precedent in American jurisprudence-ordered him banished to the Confederacy. Vallandigham managed to make his way to Canada, and in 1864 received the Democratic nomination for governor of Ohio and almost won. (He is said to be the inspiration for Edward Everett Hale's story "The Man Without a Country.")
Lincoln's suspension of the writ of habeas corpus eventually resulted in his issuing an arrest order for the chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. In May 1861 John Merryman was arrested by U.S. troops at his farm near Cockeysville, Maryland. A Southern sympathizer, Merryman was implicated in a plot to burn railroad bridges in Maryland. He was taken to Fort McHenry and held without charge. Roger B. Taney, Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, was also the sitting federal circuit court judge for the district that included Maryland. He issued a writ of habeas corpus to General George Cadwalader directing that Merryman be either formally charged or released. Using President Lincoln's order as his authority, Cadwalader refused.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: 96820
795 posts, read 2,299,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
Taking a citizen's rights away simply one the basis of ethnicity is wrong and it goes against the Constitution. There has to be solid proof that a person is a security threat to this nation, and not fear based on ethnicity.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
Henry Kissinger
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:13 PM
 
1,308 posts, read 2,866,453 times
Reputation: 641
Few of the Germans arrested in WWII were arrested because of their nationality. They were arrested because they were either foreign nationals or associated with pro-Nazi groups such as the German Bund movement. Communists associated with the Spanish Civil War were arrested during this period as well, as were all perceived security threats.

This is what makes this policy different than that of the Japanese on the West Coast. They were arrested specifically because they were Japanese regardless of citizenship and behavior.
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,260,509 times
Reputation: 6920
They could have had it worse - they could have been deported.
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Old 01-09-2010, 11:49 PM
 
900 posts, read 673,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
Few of the Germans arrested in WWII were arrested because of their nationality. They were arrested because they were either foreign nationals or associated with pro-Nazi groups such as the German Bund movement. Communists associated with the Spanish Civil War were arrested during this period as well, as were all perceived security threats.

This is what makes this policy different than that of the Japanese on the West Coast. They were arrested specifically because they were Japanese regardless of citizenship and behavior.

Exactly.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:51 PM
 
1,308 posts, read 2,866,453 times
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It would have been pretty difficult physically to deport anyone to Germany or Japan. The US lacked the ability to get there

The actions that Lincoln, and I assume FDR, took against various people were ratified by Congress (after the fact in the first case, before the fact in the later case).
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Houston
3,565 posts, read 4,868,291 times
Reputation: 931
Do you think they were real threats? I think a lot of Germans would have joined the U.S. to fight Hitler.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:40 AM
 
900 posts, read 673,370 times
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Some probably did. Those who were interned were German nationals who had shown some reason for that action - whether it was as members of the Bund, or through maintaining connections with the Nazi regime.

And that was absolutely the right thing to do. This was a war for national survival. It was also completely different than interning U.S. citizens of Japanese ancestry.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:29 PM
 
1,308 posts, read 2,866,453 times
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Many German Americans fought of course against Germany. The people arrested were foreign nationals and the very small number of US citizens who actively supported fascist causes.
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