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Old 10-07-2009, 02:33 PM
 
206 posts, read 194,530 times
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Many Red Army prisoners- mostly taken in the opening Barbarossa campaign from June to December 1941- and the German Offensive in southern Russia in the summer of 1942 where sent to prison camps in Germany- but also in Poland. Many where thrown into concentration camps, and others left to starve, or die in the outside elements. Many where victims of brutal medical experiments, by the Gestapo Doctors who wanted to see how long it would take the 'subhuman Slavs' survive the most cruel and grotesque medical abuses to their bodies.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinglebell View Post
Both Germany and Japan committed atrocities during the war
I totally agree with you. That of course doesn't mean other countries (the USA, the USSR, Italy etc.) were like angels but indeed Germany and Japan were extremely cruel and brutal towards their enemies.
For those who have stated calling Germans and Japs cruel during WW2 is a bigotry I'd say, "It's not bigotry. It's only facts. Simple facts".
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:03 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 10,072,662 times
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More then a few of them "volunteered" to join the German Army and the SS. Alot of people don't know that alot of the "German troops" defending the Normandy region in June 1944 were actually Russian POWs.
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Cheswolde
1,977 posts, read 6,784,845 times
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Default General Vlasov

I read on this thread that General Vlasov was hanged. Indeed this is also what a wikipedia entry claims. I find it difficult to believe. As a sop, the Soviets shot people, in the neck. They did not hang them because, someone once claimed to me, Stalin thought it was possible that someone hanged did not actually die. He didn't want any nasty surprises.
Several years ago I visited a killing field in Medvezhyegorsk (Karhumäki), near the Stalin Canal and the Murmansk railroad, where more than 5,000 people were shot, including non-Soviet citizens who were in charge of recruiting technical assistance workers from North America.
Two other comments: I lived in Moscow for five years in an apartment building along the Ring Road that had been built by German POWs. One of the most desirable buildings in town because it was solidly built.
I think it's a stretch to claim that Vlasov hated Nazis as much as the Soviets. He was a collaborator. If he hated Nazis so much, he could have refused to join active fighting on the German side. The Germans might have shot him -- which I doubt. In the end, the Soviets shot him as a traitor so what's the difference?
Let me restate: Please someone name a single Soviet political prisoner who was hanged.

Last edited by barante; 10-11-2009 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:38 AM
 
14,339 posts, read 14,147,685 times
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Many Red Army prisoners- mostly taken in the opening Barbarossa campaign from June to December 1941- and the German Offensive in southern Russia in the summer of 1942 where sent to prison camps in Germany- but also in Poland. Many where thrown into concentration camps, and others left to starve, or die in the outside elements. Many where victims of brutal medical experiments, by the Gestapo Doctors who wanted to see how long it would take the 'subhuman Slavs' survive the most cruel and grotesque medical abuses to their bodies.

.................................................. ..................................................

Nazi ideology assigned a hierarchy to human beings based on their race. At the very top of the hierarchy, of course, was a pure Nordic, Aryan race whose members had blonde hair and blue eyes, were tall, and had much physical prowess. Just below that would have been stock Europeans whose features were a bit darker, but nevertheless were Caucasoid in appearance. Further down the hierarchy would be oriental groups. Near the very bottom ( but just above Jews and Gypsies) were Slavic peoples. Of course, the Russians are predominantly Slavic.

This hierarchy is what made it so easy for the Naziis to slaughter Poles and Russians literally by the millions. Russia had an opportunity to sign the Geneva Convention on the Treatment of Prisoners of War during the 1920's and for, whatever reasons, the Communist Government of the USSR declined to do so. Its very possible that even if they had signed this Treaty that Hitler might have ignored its provisions anyway considering that conquering the Soviet Union militarily would have presented problems processing huge numbers of POWs that would not have allowed for very humane treatment. In fact, Stalin's own son was captured by the Germans and died in capitivity.

What we do know is that that Nazi Germany pretty much honored the Geneva Convention when it came to signatory countries such as the USA and the United Kingdom. In fact, American POWS had a slightly higher survival rate in Nazi POW camps than German POWS had in American POW camps! Former American POWs should thank the diplomats who signed the Geneva Convention every day for the rest of their lives.

Nazi treatment of the Russian people was about on par with its treatment of the Jews. In "Mein Kampf", Hitler spoke of the need to invade and cease sections of Southern Russia to create "lebensraum" or living space for the German nation to expand. Out of necessity, this would have involved exterminating or moving millions of Russians out of the way. In short, what I am trying to say is that Hitler hated the Russian people and felt they were "just in the way". This, in his mind, excused virtually any brutality against them.

Two wrongs don't make a right. But when the Russians invaded Germany they subjected Germans to some of the abuse they had been getting for four long years. I have often heard Germans complain about acts committed against people in Russian occupied Germany including murder, rape, robbery, etc. What many of these Germans often fail to acknowledge is the overwhelming number and the scope of atrocities committed against Russians.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,435,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barante View Post
I read on this thread that General Vlasov was hanged. Indeed this is also what a wikipedia entry claims. I find it difficult to believe. As a sop, the Soviets shot people, in the neck. They did not hang them because, someone once claimed to me, Stalin thought it was possible that someone hanged did not actually die. He didn't want any nasty surprises.
Several years ago I visited a killing field in Medvezhyegorsk (Karhumäki), near the Stalin Canal and the Murmansk railroad, where more than 5,000 people were shot, including non-Soviet citizens who were in charge of recruiting technical assistance workers from North America.
Two other comments: I lived in Moscow for five years in an apartment building along the Ring Road that had been built by German POWs. One of the most desirable buildings in town because it was solidly built.
I think it's a stretch to claim that Vlasov hated Nazis as much as the Soviets. He was a collaborator. If he hated Nazis so much, he could have refused to join active fighting on the German side. The Germans might have shot him -- which I doubt. In the end, the Soviets shot him as a traitor so what's the difference?
Let me restate: Please someone name a single Soviet political prisoner who was hanged.

I agree with you and thanks for the information. Knowing the brutality of Stalin and that Vlasov was returned to him alive, and that Stalin had enlisted POW's after surrendering who were repatriated sometimes shot (they were viewed as traitors to Stalin) I too doubt that hanging would have been the prefered method for whom Stalin considered to be worse than any high ranking Nazi he had in custody. I've actually read one account that he was boiled alive in a vat of acid and that is how Stalin had him killed.
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Old 10-18-2009, 06:01 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,407 posts, read 6,781,810 times
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The brutal truth is that Stalin had most of the Soviet prisoners of war executed after the war even it they never collaborated with Germans.
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Old 10-18-2009, 07:09 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,134,650 times
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One of the biggest errors the germans made in 1941 was failing to see just how useful soviet pows could be for slave labor. By the time they realized this, the *** was already up.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:24 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,936,824 times
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According to the Holocaust Museum between 140,000 to 500,000 (that's a wild range) Soviet POW's died in Nazi concentration camps like Buchenwald, Musthausen, and Majdanek.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
What many of these Germans often fail to acknowledge is the overwhelming number and the scope of atrocities committed against Russians.
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