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If he was in fact a guard at one of these camps, then he does NOT deserve to leave this world on a peaceful note. Let him spend his last days rotting in a cold cell. He's still be getting off easy.
And if it turns out he wasn't...well, the last years of his life have been ruined without any good reason.
Do we rush to judgment on the alleged crimes of a simple man with a fourth-grade education, but readily give a pass to brilliant men who developed the hellish rockets that rained down on London? In either case, the victims were just as dead. Your thoughts?
Well von Braun was very useful to us after the war so we used him. Very practical.
Besides, von Braun was unwittingly useful to us during the war too; it was better that considerable German resources were devoted to the impractical V2 (can you think of a more expensive and complicated way to deliver a mere 2000lbs of TNT to a target?) than to more practical things such as simply making more shells and small arms. Or synthetic oil.
Many people have identified Demjanjuk as a Nazi guard, even if he is not Ivan the terrible, and when he became a US citizen he evidently lied to gain admission to this country and covered up that fact. So maybe the deportation has more to do with his first being admitted to this country under false pretenses?
The first time I ever heard of "Ivan the Terrible" was in Martin Gray's (a pseudonym) account (written with Max Gallo) of his horrific Treblinka experiences recounted in his book "For Those I loved" published in 1971. Gray was perhaps the only person to ever escape from this infamous camp. It was a place of unimaginable horrors, where fear turned ordinary men into something less than human. No particular ethnic group can be singled out as worse than others. Survival at Treblinka was on an hour-by-hour basis, where life was frequently terminated at the whim of an SS guard. One paragraph in Gray's book is so powerful it is worth repeating:
"Here, in Treblinka, it wasn't the Jews they were killing, it wasn't a particular race they were exterminating. The butchers wanted to destroy mankind, and they'd decided to begin with those men known as Jews. ... "In Treblinka, it was mankind they were wiping out." As Gray points out, at Treblinka, he discovered that there was neither Jew nor non-Jew, "there was only humankind."
I don't know of the guilt or innocence of John Demjanjuk's alleged crimes. If the thorough-going Israeli courts couldn't find him guilty, there must be some doubt about his identification as "Ivan the Terrible." However, it does pose a moral question: Do we rush to judgment on the alleged crimes of a simple man with a fourth-grade education, but readily give a pass to brilliant men who developed the hellish rockets that rained down on London? In either case, the victims were just as dead. Your thoughts?
Good questions. I would like to know how they are going to prove beyond a doubt he is Ivan the Terrible.
Eyewitnesses aren't proof, because anyone can say anything. And what if he just looks like the guy?
You're right, Germany wasn't originally going after him. His prosecutions and deportations have been driven by various Jewish groups who need to be seen as going after nazis to rake in the donations.
From what I've read on this fellow the evidence in this case appears nearly as flimsy as that against him when he was tried in israel. Hearsay and unverifiable possibly false documents.
Which is exactly why our government let them take him. He is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. They haven't proven him guilty, so how can they extradite him?
Which is exactly why our government let them take him. He is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. They haven't proven him guilty, so how can they extradite him?
First of all, Demjanjuk wasn't extradited, he is being deported.
Second, he purpose of extradition is to send a person to the proper jurisdiction for the purpose of determining guilt or innocence.
I think,sadly, that it all comes down to wars. After WW1, a large study was made about how the soldiers felt about what they had done, how they dealt with the trench warefare, sometimes fighting for months just to gain a few yards and then losing it the next day....The conclusion.."Men enjoyed fighting"
When I started reading history, I was not really interested in wars. From the beginning it was one fight after another...cattle and wife stealing..land grabs, power grabs and on and on. I think it is human nature to have wars..
As you said..trying a man with a fourth grade education would not change thing any more than prosecuting the people who invent new and terrible weapons. I am not a "Peace-nick" ..and I don['t believe people will ever eliminate wars.
your realistic view on wars and individual psychologies aside, the D. case is dealing with the issue of genocide, and that's still a different matter.
And isn't that what they are trying to do?
Or, have they already declared him guilty, and based on what evidence????
You've lost once again.
Your op: "...our government let them take him. He is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. They haven't proven him guilty, so how can they extradite him?"
Question: Are you suggesting that he be tried in absentia? The sole purpose of extradition is to make a defendant available to the courts of jurisdiction. An extradition is not a finding of guilt or innocence.
However that is a moot point since Demjanjuk wasn't extradited, he was deported.
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