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Without the slave trade, more than likely 98-100% of all darker skinned people from Africa would still live in Africa. Don't think any of the Africans had developed major sail power like the Europeans had. The mediterranean people(greek, roman, phonecians, egyptian) developed the original sailing ships, but never developed the capabilities to sail across the Great Oceans. That was left to the Vikings, and other European countries that developed that type of ship in the early middle ages. Although the Pacific Island people did use outrigged canoes to traverse the pacific. The Indians would still rule the Americas if the Europeans had never developed the modern sailing ships. There may be lots of Africans in Europe, but not in America. Just a thought. Also if the Indians would of not died off from the asian diseases, there would of been no need to bring over the Africans. Main reason they were used as slaves was because the were much more resistant to small pox, and other diseases than the Indians were. Christopher Columbus enslaved all of the Indains on Hispaniola Island, but within 20 years the bulk of the Indians were dead from disease. The Spanish were the first to bring over the slaves from Africa. It was just destiny that it happened.
I never should have opened this thread. Here we go........
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Originally Posted by simetime
Slavery in the U.S was the most brutal in the world b/c unlike in ancient times and even in tribal Africa in a course of a couple of generations slaves blended into the general population. In american slavery blacks were targeted b/c they COULD NOT blend into the general population and the even when it ended, a race of people were w/o a culture or knew anything about their history and kept in the dark by their oppressors with stupid laws feuled by racism to this day. According to general knowledge this country was torn apart b/c it. Laws were even created feuled by racism (JIM CROW) Please give me examples of any other country that can boost that acheivement.
How can you bend your fingers to even insinuate that slavery was better than death for some of those poor souls? The native americans constantly killed themselves when faced with "reasonable conditions" as for the africans, there were millions that threw themselves overboard rather than face the brutality that faced them once they arrived in the new world. Now I will concede to the fact that the suicide rate might have lowered once they got here only b/c they had no where else to go.
Oh, one more thing check your real black history books and you will find that many mothers killed their own children just so that they would not have to grow up into slavery.
Now tell me if slavery was not as brutal as I mentioned would a perfectly sane women kill their newborns under "reasonable conditions"?
Without the slave trade, more than likely 98-100% of all darker skinned people from Africa would still live in Africa. Don't think any of the Africans had developed major sail power like the Europeans had. The mediterranean people(greek, roman, phonecians, egyptian) developed the original sailing ships, but never developed the capabilities to sail across the Great Oceans. That was left to the Vikings, and other European countries that developed that type of ship in the early middle ages. Although the Pacific Island people did use outrigged canoes to traverse the pacific. The Indians would still rule the Americas if the Europeans had never developed the modern sailing ships. There may be lots of Africans in Europe, but not in America. Just a thought. Also if the Indians would of not died off from the asian diseases, there would of been no need to bring over the Africans. Main reason they were used as slaves was because the were much more resistant to small pox, and other diseases than the Indians were. Christopher Columbus enslaved all of the Indains on Hispaniola Island, but within 20 years the bulk of the Indians were dead from disease. The Spanish were the first to bring over the slaves from Africa. It was just destiny that it happened.
Historically, that may have been true, but the Africans living in Africa before the time of the slave trade were perfectly content to stay in Africa. They didn't chose to come to America. They were used to economic gain of the empires they worked for and they didn't gain a cent for it. There is a Romani(most people call them Gypsies) saying "When I die, you should bury me standing, because I have been on my knees my whole life". That was the situation of the slaves in the USA. Why else were there so many suicides of slaves(mainly from jumping off of the ships)?
There many have not been large sailing tradition in Africa(except for in East Africa), but there were trading centers and universities in Africa(not just Egypt).
The slave owners of the United States would have given up slavery when mechanical cotton and crop picking machines were cheaper and more reliable than slaves and not one day sooner. I suspect some folks would still have household slaves to this day if civilized people had not made them illegal.
The slave owners of the United States would have given up slavery when mechanical cotton and crop picking machines were cheaper and more reliable than slaves and not one day sooner. I suspect some folks would still have household slaves to this day if civilized people had not made them illegal.
I pity the slave and despise the slave holder.
Maybe so and maybe not. Slavery was an economic issue. It was also considered a status symbol to have slaves. Having slaves showed that you were rich enough to have people do work for you so you didn't have to. Some people would have stopped using slaves in favor of mechanical labor, but others would have been slow to stop using slaves. I think that if it wasn't for the government getting involved in 1865, slavery could have continued until the early 20th century. It would have died out slowly rather than stopped by law. My own reasoning is that slavery in the USA in the beginning was getting more costly until the cotton gin was invented. Then slavery became more useful. Slavery was continued all the way to the Civil War. Many of the slave owners stood up and said that they were willing to fight to keep slaves. They would not take up arms themselves. They used the poor, white farmers to fight for them, people who didn't even own slaves. When the South lost, a new constitution was written and slavery was abolished. If the war didn't happen(or if the South won), the South would have kept using slaves. Slaves were also seen as a status symbol, so many would have kept slaves for the house keeping. While mechanical tools would have been used for cheaper(and faster) reaping of cotton, some people would have kept some slaves around in a few places just to show "look at what we have". Feel free to correct if you find any holes in my theory.
Maybe so and maybe not. Slavery was an economic issue. It was also considered a status symbol to have slaves. Having slaves showed that you were rich enough to have people do work for you so you didn't have to. Some people would have stopped using slaves in favor of mechanical labor, but others would have been slow to stop using slaves. I think that if it wasn't for the government getting involved in 1865, slavery could have continued until the early 20th century. It would have died out slowly rather than stopped by law. My own reasoning is that slavery in the USA in the beginning was getting more costly until the cotton gin was invented. Then slavery became more useful. Slavery was continued all the way to the Civil War. Many of the slave owners stood up and said that they were willing to fight to keep slaves. They would not take up arms themselves. They used the poor, white farmers to fight for them, people who didn't even own slaves. When the South lost, a new constitution was written and slavery was abolished. If the war didn't happen(or if the South won), the South would have kept using slaves. Slaves were also seen as a status symbol, so many would have kept slaves for the house keeping. While mechanical tools would have been used for cheaper(and faster) reaping of cotton, some people would have kept some slaves around in a few places just to show "look at what we have". Feel free to correct if you find any holes in my theory.
You mean sort of like what the rich people in America Do with hispanic people now. The hispanics do all the labor jobs in Amercia now, and many are kept in secret by the wealthy to do as they please with them. They have no legal voice like the blacks do in America. The blacks had to stand up to almost a 100 years of oppresion after the civil war to finally win their freedom in America. It is funny to me though that I notice many black people look down on hispancis, as many white people looked down on the blacks. I wonder why that form of pyschology happens in the human mind. Why is it so hard for us to all treat each other as equals. I hope one day the racism of color, and the class system of wealth has dissappeared from this planet. I am a white American that has a Persian lady in my life, and when we go out to eat the looks we get sometime are amazing. People are scared of each other for the stupidest reasons. To bad we can not be like dogs. Dogs have no issue with a different breed of dog. They just see each other as dogs. Maybe on day we will see each other as just people. I doubt I live to see that day, but the fear has to end if mankind is to ever make in a world full of nuclear weapons.
You mean sort of like what the rich people in America Do with hispanic people now. The hispanics do all the labor jobs in Amercia now, and many are kept in secret by the wealthy to do as they please with them. They have no legal voice like the blacks do in America.
The comparison is not apt. With very few exceptions, both Hispanic immigrants and illegal aliens not only came to the United States voluntarily, many endured great risk and hardship to get in. Those who are not legal have no voice because they deserve no voice; if they want a voice they should not begin their stays by violating our law. Black Americans, by contrast, descended from (the limited number of voyage-surviving) ancestors brought here entirely against their will, and were kept in bondage entirely against their will for many generations. I think many would have gone anywhere they could be free, and indeed a number did return to their ancestral Africa when Liberia was formed.
You mean sort of like what the rich people in America Do with hispanic people now. The hispanics do all the labor jobs in Amercia now, and many are kept in secret by the wealthy to do as they please with them. They have no legal voice like the blacks do in America. The blacks had to stand up to almost a 100 years of oppresion after the civil war to finally win their freedom in America. It is funny to me though that I notice many black people look down on hispancis, as many white people looked down on the blacks. I wonder why that form of pyschology happens in the human mind. Why is it so hard for us to all treat each other as equals. I hope one day the racism of color, and the class system of wealth has dissappeared from this planet. I am a white American that has a Persian lady in my life, and when we go out to eat the looks we get sometime are amazing. People are scared of each other for the stupidest reasons. To bad we can not be like dogs. Dogs have no issue with a different breed of dog. They just see each other as dogs. Maybe on day we will see each other as just people. I doubt I live to see that day, but the fear has to end if mankind is to ever make in a world full of nuclear weapons.
Not quite because the situation was different, but the comparison in the fact of using someone to do the dirty work as a form of privilege is similar. I hope too that the class system will cease and that we treat one another as equals. Personally, I believe that race has been used as a social control. Race has been used as a way to stratify people. It is a matter of "the more you don't have, the more I have". The reason certain people get marginalized is because it props up the people who do have things. That is part of why stereotypes came from. It is applying a few things you see from a few people and applying it to the entire group. It is used to say "look how they act. They're all like that, so let us marginalize them and treat them bad and deny them human rights". Slavery worked the same way. The slaves had nothing, so the slave owners got rich. Many people used race as a reason to enslave them. When slavery ended, many people used race and made up stereotypes to excuse themselves for treating people like crap. That is just my take on it. I believe when human greed ends, people will begin to look at each other as human beings.
Slavery, or conscript labor has been known to be the most costly and least efficient labor and as infrastructure and support systems grew, slavery would have been abandoned not for any moral reasons but due to inefficiency.
Even in the early Colonization of North America by the Spaniards, slavery was more of a last resort than a first choice. Spain couldn't bribe enough Europeans to settle the new world so they started using forced labor.
Even as late as the 1860s every plantation owner realized the inefficiency of conscript labor and were leaning to better options. In early days of the US, it was nearly impossible to get farm labor in the south. Why would anyone work a farm for someone else when there were millions of acres of free and fertile land available for the taking.
Though slavery had become an institution in the south, more efficient mechanization was creeping in. The slaves would have been displaced by machines by the 1890s whether there had been a civil war or not. I often suspect that the root of all the hatred in this country today isn't about slavery but that war. I'm not in any way condoning slavery but a quick glance at history will show that just winning wasn't enough for the north. It systematically and continually destroyed the south for a many years after the war.
The whole irony of the civil war is that slavery was actually a side-issue. SC seceded because of tariff laws. Lincoln used the slavery issue as a tool because he couldn't get the people fired up over tariffs. Today our leaders use hot topics like religion and morality to get popular support for their wars because people just aren't all that keen on sending their sons off to die for Chevron. The hot topic of the time was slavery. Of course the North had no choice but to supress the rebellion because if southern port cities charged no tariffs, it would cripple the northern ports and since tariffs were the primary source of revenue for the government, it was fairly important that the union be preserved.
But yeah, slavery was on it's way out for economic reasons, not moral.
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