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I think we should not hesitate to pay reparations to any living person that was held in legal slavery. However, granting the major contribution that black slaves made toward the building of this nation, their modern descendants did get at least one form of compensation: they live here, rather than in Africa. Africa has some of the most corrupt, unstable and impoverished living areas on the whole planet, with little upward mobility opportunity except for the rich (who are already in charge anyway). The corruption makes New Orleans look like Provo. At times the violence makes New Orleans look like Fargo. Then there is disease, in which AIDS has become almost a new black African Holocaust. It would not surprise me to learn that more black Africans have now died from AIDS than were ever shipped over as slaves. Not that this makes slavery better or justifiable; rather, it points out that modern African problems are not trivial.
As ugly as some of our inner cities are, and as badly treated as many black Americans have been in their lives, and as many inequities still remain to be addressed before we can consider our racial problems adequately addressed, the great majority have more opportunity and better lives than if they had grown up in sub-Saharan Africa. It doesn't erase the many wrongs done to slaves and their descendants, of course, but nothing really can--and throwing even more money at the problem won't help. ('More'? Yes. The whole concept of affirmative action has been a way of throwing money at the problem; creating its own inequalities that mock the underlying concept of equality.)
If one doubts this, one could poll a number of black Americans and see if they want to emigrate to sub-Saharan Africa. One could then poll a number of sub-Saharan black Africans and ask them if they would emigrate to the US given the chance.
That is one thing many people refused to recognize. Some people even justify it. I didn't know CSX had a role in slavery. CSX should pay back the debt it owns. Many people will say that CSX owes nothing. It leached off of people in their own way, paid them nothing. Why not pay off the debt?
Many companies that are still in existence today built their fortunes off of slavery. The wealth in New York City did not just fall out of the sky. Those companies were around years ago during slavery, built their fortunes and then passed those fortunes down to their descendents.
The only thing that was passed down to the descendents of Africans (black people) is poverty, a loss of culture, religion, language, connection to the African homeland and the understanding that the United States and other countries that profited from slavery has gotten away with free labor!! Africans were promised 40 acres and a mule when slavery ended.........it NEVER happened. You and I share the same thought. If we work we get paid for our work. Simple concept right? "You ask why not pay off the debt"? Because as much as people in this country still do not want to admit it............racism is stopping the US government, Europe, Africa, Spain, Brazil, Islands in the caribbean (Haiti, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, Trinidad, Mexico etc.) from sharing their responsibility to pay the debt. They all profited from free labor, therefore they all should share the responsibilty to pay African descendents the money that is owed. The other reason they refuse to accept their guilt and pay what they owe is because to add up the amount of money that they owe is ENORMOUS! America has become a wealthy country because of ill gotten gain. The amount of money owed for the damages of slavery is simply too much money and would mean a total reversal of the wealth in the United States.
If you have not read it, pick up a copy of "The Debt, What American Owes to Black People" by Randall Robinson from the Amazon website. Very interesting reading.
I think we should not hesitate to pay reparations to any living person that was held in legal slavery. However, granting the major contribution that black slaves made toward the building of this nation, their modern descendants did get at least one form of compensation: they live here, rather than in Africa. Africa has some of the most corrupt, unstable and impoverished living areas on the whole planet, with little upward mobility opportunity except for the rich (who are already in charge anyway). The corruption makes New Orleans look like Provo. At times the violence makes New Orleans look like Fargo. Then there is disease, in which AIDS has become almost a new black African Holocaust. It would not surprise me to learn that more black Africans have now died from AIDS than were ever shipped over as slaves. Not that this makes slavery better or justifiable; rather, it points out that modern African problems are not trivial.
As ugly as some of our inner cities are, and as badly treated as many black Americans have been in their lives, and as many inequities still remain to be addressed before we can consider our racial problems adequately addressed, the great majority have more opportunity and better lives than if they had grown up in sub-Saharan Africa. It doesn't erase the many wrongs done to slaves and their descendants, of course, but nothing really can--and throwing even more money at the problem won't help. ('More'? Yes. The whole concept of affirmative action has been a way of throwing money at the problem; creating its own inequalities that mock the underlying concept of equality.)
If one doubts this, one could poll a number of black Americans and see if they want to emigrate to sub-Saharan Africa. One could then poll a number of sub-Saharan black Africans and ask them if they would emigrate to the US given the chance.
Much of the trouble that goes on in Africa today is a result of everything beginning from the slave trade to colonialism. Africa has been leached and pillage for the gain of others. It never had the full chance to develop the way other places did.
Much of the trouble that goes on in Africa today is a result of everything beginning from the slave trade to colonialism. Africa has been leached and pillage for the gain of others. It never had the full chance to develop the way other places did.
Amen to what you said!! For this person to make the comment that black people were better off being kidnapped from their home because of the current condition Africa is in is INSANE! When they snatched millions of people out of Africa they took the strongest people and caused the current instability that we see in Africa today. Maybe if the world order had not been disturbed and Africa would have been left alone there would not be so many problems in Africa now!
Much of the trouble that goes on in Africa today is a result of everything beginning from the slave trade to colonialism. Africa has been leached and pillage for the gain of others. It never had the full chance to develop the way other places did.
Those are three different statements. The second two are true, but they do not prove the first. We really don't know how Africa would have developed absent slave abductions and colonialism, and it's very difficult to draw a credible conjecture that would answer the question: "Suppose Europeans and Arabs had never landed in sub-Saharan Africa except to trade fairly with the locals for their resources and goods, seeking no political control and abducting no one. How would Africa be different today?" I do not believe it would be worse, but no one has yet shown me precisely how it would be much better.
When I read educated Africans' estimates of African problems, they point most of all to kleptocratic government, lack of education and ethnic enmities. Looking at Mugabe, some of the wackier notions about preventing/curing HIV, and Rwanda, I'm inclined to see the Africans' point. We cannot solve kleptocratic government for Africa. We can do only a limited amount to assist with education; our own education problems are imposing as well, and directly impact most of all our own Indian and black citizens, whom I think should have priority over foreigners; if we don't validate ethnic enmities as a good way to live, we are being culturally insensitive.
I'm tired of trying to address situations we can't solve in places to which we have no obligation. (Except for Liberia, the Europeans did all the colonizing in Africa. Let them handle that one.) I'd rather address those we can solve, to people to whom we do have obligations. Starting with doing something about the education system that makes it something of a triumph of the will for an inner city or reservation student of any race to finish high school. Starting with abolishing and modifying idiotic drug laws that have created, in effect, a black gulag. Starting with doing whatever it takes to abolish gang rule, by whatever gang and in whatever area, so that people who choose to stay out of gangs have a chance to live and a decent place to do so. Starting with doing more for understanding of black history than to simply trot out Booker T. Washington and Harriet Tubman and Jackie Robinson every February. Starting with ceasing to see someone like OJ Simpson as some kind of a hero. Starting with getting some publicity for the positive factors produced by hip-hop culture. Like Chris Rock says, 'White dealer sells gun, Second Amendment rights! Black rapper says 'gun', Congressional investigation!' Those are inequities we can address. We should.
Maybe if the world order had not been disturbed and Africa would have been left alone there would not be so many problems in Africa now!
And just what "world order" was that?
Almost every place in the world has been subject to conquest and exploitation at one time or another, what happened in Africa was just human affairs as normal. That's the way it goes.
Amen to what you said!! For this person to make the comment that black people were better off being kidnapped from their home because of the current condition Africa is in is INSANE!
I didn't say that at all, and if you had read carefully, you would know it. Kindly refrain from misrepresenting my words. This is an emotional topic, and it is very irresponsible for anyone to do that. Why do you think it's so hard for people to talk about in the modern world? Because of people who react emotionally without even listening to what was really said. Please do not make that even harder.
Almost every place in the world has been subject to conquest and exploitation at one time or another, what happened in Africa was just human affairs as normal. That's the way it goes.
Can not use the words HUMAN OR NORMAL in the description of what has happened to Africa! As I mentioned previously when millions of the strongest Africans were snatched from their homes the world order was disrupted. The snatching of people resulted in those people being SCATTERED in different places, which caused the problems we see in Africa today and also caused a disruption of the world order. For example had Africa been left to develop without outside interference the civil war may not have happened, Africa, America, Europe and the Caribbean would have developed differently.
Slavery has had a negative domino effect on world development especially for those (black people) who are the descendents!
I have a real and sever problem with that line of argument because it erroneously divorces the slave trade to the colonial and neo-colonial exploitation of African that is inextricably tied to the slave trade to begin with.
I didn't say that at all, and if you had read carefully, you would know it. Kindly refrain from misrepresenting my words. This is an emotional topic, and it is very irresponsible for anyone to do that. Why do you think it's so hard for people to talk about in the modern world? Because of people who react emotionally without even listening to what was really said. Please do not make that even harder.
Before you accuse someone of being irresponsible in their comments go back and read your own words!! First of all you were off topic bringing up the AIDS epidemic in your response.........we are discussing slavery! You tried to justify what happened by implying that somehow black people are better off. That is absurd to imply that people are better off being forced (kidnapped) to leave their birthplace. I am quite sure that simply being black in America can NEVER be considered a form of compensation for slavery.
Here are your exact words:
granting the major contribution that black slaves made toward the building of this nation, their modern descendants did get at least one form of compensation: they live here, rather than in Africa. Africa has some of the most corrupt, unstable and impoverished living areas on the whole planet, with little upward mobility opportunity except for the rich (who are already in charge anyway). The corruption makes New Orleans look like Provo. At times the violence makes New Orleans look like Fargo. Then there is disease, in which AIDS has become almost a new black African Holocaust. It would not surprise me to learn that more black Africans have now died from AIDS than were ever shipped over as slaves.
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