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Old 08-23-2009, 10:28 PM
 
7,530 posts, read 11,365,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
So it is not surprising that those looking for a quick was to develop Africa saw the Soviet model as being more relevant to the African situation than the USA approach.
I've heard it pointed out that the reason many new African leaders rejected both capitalism and democracy was because they mistakenly viewed both as "western institutions" that had nothing to do with African culture. Ghanaian economist George Ayittey pointed out that Julius Nyerere of Tanzania believed that the collectivism that indigenous Africans practiced,which was voluntary,was the same as the type of socialism practiced by the Soviets,which was forced. But indigenous collectivism and Soviet style socialism had several differences that African leaders weren't aware of. Soviet style socialism actually clashed with indigenous Africans more market oriented economic activity and their use of participatory democracy. George Ayittey points out that Botswana was one of the few new African countries that used their tradition of market economics and traditional methods of governing as an influence on their new country. He recommends that other African countries build on or modernize their traditional systems of economics and governing and use them as an influence on their countries.
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Old 08-24-2009, 11:52 AM
 
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Here's what I'am talking about with Botswana.

http://blip.tv/play/AcnoPI6iCQ
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:01 PM
 
261 posts, read 668,615 times
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I've always had serious problems with such afro-centric claims.
I've always had problems with such racist claims that seem to imply no body could have ever done anything before or white and anyone who thinks so is a pro black racist. The Vikings sailed to north america before columbus, the chinese did it, the polynesians did it, the wagadu aka the ghana empire did it, columbus was the last person to sail to the New World. There was over 50 million native americans living in the West and Colombus has the balls to say that he discovered America, a place where millions of people were already living for thousands of years. That is a eurocentric claim. It just proves that if you are not white and you discover something from a white point of view it has not been discovered. It just proves that you have to be the right kind of white too, the viking are white, so why is colombus credited with found americas? Because they are not western european white.
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,651,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuba libre View Post
Didn't the average African live a better life during the days of colonial occupation? Weren't there more civil, governmental, and economic systems/institutions that emploued Africans and which kept their bellies full?

It seems like African countries have only gotten poorer and more disease ridden since the flight of European colonial powers. So, in spite of all of the things that have gone wrong, has ANYTHING gotten better?

Yes, and apartheid was nirvana.
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
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Any governmental system will either fail miserably or succeed miserably, if it is constantly beset by opposition from within and without and impending revolution, and needs to be held precariously in place by force and oppression. South Africa, during Apartheid, was one of the most rigorously rigid capitalist free-market systems in the world, perhaps second only to Ian Smith's Rhodesia, and there was virtually no public assistance program for South African whites. There was a loaded gun in every glove compartment. Today's American libertarians and neocons would have loved it. But that did not make it virtuous.
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:43 PM
 
7,530 posts, read 11,365,273 times
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
South Africa, during Apartheid, was one of the most rigorously rigid capitalist free-market systems in the world, perhaps second only to Ian Smith's Rhodesia, and there was virtually no public assistance program for South African whites. There was a loaded gun in every glove compartment. Today's American libertarians and neocons would have loved it.
I don't think they would love Aparthied South Africa because it wasn't a democracy which they generally promote. Milton Friedman would argue that both Aparthied South Africa and the Jim Crow south were both examples of racist Big Government. It was big government that enforced those systems.

He touches on the Jim Crow south here:


YouTube - Milton Friedman - Government Regulation
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Old 08-26-2009, 12:42 AM
 
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The myth that South Africa only became a crime haven after apartheid is a myth. I know a white south african and he said the reason he left was because 90% of the population has nothing and the 10% who do have something live in constant fear as they get robbed on a bi-monthly basis, despite having bullet proof cars and electric fencing. I agree with Milton big government is bad. Apartheid failed because not even the whites wanted apartheid in SA, only a racist minority who controlled gov. did that.
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Old 08-26-2009, 12:53 AM
 
Location: England
3,261 posts, read 3,705,472 times
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Still spreading the B/S eh Jungeon?
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Old 08-26-2009, 01:10 AM
 
261 posts, read 668,615 times
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Sometime I wonder whats your problem?
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:57 AM
 
Location: England
3,261 posts, read 3,705,472 times
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I only have a problem with your racism, dishonesty & grammer.
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